Traffic Alerts in the Pattern

thevideographer

Well-Known Member
Hope technical is the right place for this...

Lets say you're flying in a busy traffic pattern in a class D or C and get a G1000 traffic alert. I don't mean a TCAS alert, just an ADS-B alert that another plane is close. How close do you get before taking evasive action? Do you assume that the tower knows what's going on or turn immediately, and possibly create an entirely new traffic problem?

The reason I ask is because in the pattern today another aircraft flying the opposite direction came mighty close to me while I was on downwind, all under the control of ATC. I was watching them get closer on the ADS-B screen (at my altitude), then out the window, and just as I was considering climbing back above pattern altitude the other aircraft turned off of the collision course.
 
The reason I ask is because in the pattern today another aircraft flying the opposite direction came mighty close to me while I was on downwind, all under the control of ATC. I was watching them get closer on the ADS-B screen (at my altitude), then out the window, and just as I was considering climbing back above pattern altitude the other aircraft turned off of the collision course.

If you saw a problem developing that began to bother you, did you query tower about it per chance, assuming they didn't advise you of anything plan-wise?
 
Don't let ATC kill you. They are human and there have been midairs at towered airports, airplanes cleared to land on top of each other, etc. Even if ATC does not make a mistake airplanes may fly through the pattern. TCAS saved me at the old Panama City airport when a GA airplane did this- flew through the pattern without talking. My first warning was an RA- "Climb, climb". Came very close to having 66 pax and crew members strewn across the Florida landscape. I'm sure congress would not have gotten involved if that happened.
 
Hope technical is the right place for this...

Lets say you're flying in a busy traffic pattern in a class D or C and get a G1000 traffic alert. I don't mean a TCAS alert, just an ADS-B alert that another plane is close. How close do you get before taking evasive action? Do you assume that the tower knows what's going on or turn immediately, and possibly create an entirely new traffic problem?

The reason I ask is because in the pattern today another aircraft flying the opposite direction came mighty close to me while I was on downwind, all under the control of ATC. I was watching them get closer on the ADS-B screen (at my altitude), then out the window, and just as I was considering climbing back above pattern altitude the other aircraft turned off of the collision course.

For TIS the AIM says it does not give enough information to be used for collision avoidance only to aid visual acquisition. I'm pretty sure the ADSB will be the same way.
 
I nearly got killed at the 90 (base leg for AF types like MikeD :) ) last week. Shot a section PAR (so we were on a discrete PAR freq), lead kicked me off a little too late to get proper separation, ended up having one of the scarier wake turbulence moments of my life, lit the blowers and went around with a pale face. Told the PAR controller I was going around and switched up tower, who seemed to be completely unaware that I had gone around, and they cleared me to land. This should have been my first clue that they weren't communicating with the PAR controllers. I read back my clearance, and start my approach turn. Just as I'm making my turn to final, I see out of the corner of my eyes some landing lights that should never have been in the corner of my eyes. Once again I light the blowers, go around, and tower finally catches it and starts yelling for me to go around. It turned out that the traffic had also been up a separate PAR freq, which is why I never heard them, and I hadn't been obeying the golden rule of always looking long before turning base/final. There were a few lessons to be learned from that one, but the biggest one was my own trust that tower wouldn't let something like that happen. I've seen stupid stuff like that plenty of times before, but I guess I had just gotten complacent. Long story short, don't trust ATC not to kill you, and if your systems are indicating that they are trying to, I'd be inclined to believe it. I'm not saying that TCAS will help you here, but it can at least serve as a head's up that something isn't right. Eyeballs should always be on a constant lookout anywhere near an airport, and in my case, certainly should have been out anywhere near one of the busiest mil bases in the country.
 
So NTU approach does stupid crap to their own as well? I thought they just had their head up their asses for civilian traffic.
 
So NTU approach does stupid crap to their own as well? I thought they just had their head up their asses for civilian traffic.

Yeah man, equal opportunity scare-X around here. That being said, many of them are student controllers, and I realize that they are learning, so I fault myself more for the above story than any of them.
 
NTD is a circus.....not to mention that ridiculous 12 DME arc that takes you on a nearly 360 deg scenic tour around the field. I'd say it is second only to KRIV (as far as socal mil fields go) in terms of hate and discontent when working with controllers to shoot practice approaches....
 
NTD is a circus.....not to mention that ridiculous 12 DME arc that takes you on a nearly 360 deg scenic tour around the field. I'd say it is second only to KRIV (as far as socal mil fields go) in terms of hate and discontent when working with controllers to shoot practice approaches....
The closest I've ever come to another airplane (airplane period, VFR or IFR) was under NTD's watchful eyes.

(The closest I ever came to another IFR airplane was under SoCal Approach—the total separation above was less, but both events were unpleasant.)
 
I just wish joe pilot would turn off his transponder while he's taxiing out and doing his runup... I hate being on final and having to try to hear tower over the constant screams of "TRAFFIC TRAFFIC 12 O'CLOCK ONE HALF MILE" because there are five airplanes in the runup and two on the taxiway with their transponders on.

In the FAA's infinite wisdom, the TSO for traffic systems allows you to automatically inhibit aural alerts below 400AGL if you have a radar altimeter but we're not allowed to actively turn the system off at any time.

CFI's please teach your students to turn the transponder on only as they're crossing the hold bars, and to turn it off as they're clearing the runway.
 
#uptownproblems ;)
CFI's please teach your students to turn the transponder on only as they're crossing the hold bars, and to turn it off as they're clearing the runway.
"Airport Surface Detection Equipment-X in operation - operate transponder with Mode C on all taxiways and runways."

The TSO is broken, not the operating practice.
 
Did you really need me to add in "unless otherwise specified?" ;)


Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
Oh right.

Category: NOTAMs appended to every departure release, printed on the 10-9 or -9A that everyone already knows.

Some days, I wish everyone had TCAS.
 
I'd say it is second only to KRIV (as far as socal mil fields go) in terms of hate and discontent when working with controllers to shoot practice approaches....

March is not so good eh? Is that just because you fly through the glider/skydiving/ultralight circus that is Perris Valley/Hemet/Lake Elsinore, or is ATC not so bueno as well?
 
March is not so good eh? Is that just because you fly through the glider/skydiving/ultralight circus that is Perris Valley/Hemet/Lake Elsinore, or is ATC not so bueno as well?

March is fine. They just don't like Navy. :)
 
March is not so good eh? Is that just because you fly through the glider/skydiving/ultralight circus that is Perris Valley/Hemet/Lake Elsinore, or is ATC not so bueno as well?

If there was that kind of stuff going on out there, I never saw any, so no, not because of that. They just don't seem to know what the F to do with you if you aren't shooting an ILS or a 20 mile visual straight in. That and it's real busy, and there is a departure/missed procedure there which sucks when you do it the first time.
 
If there was that kind of stuff going on out there, I never saw any, so no, not because of that. They just don't seem to know what the F to do with you if you aren't shooting an ILS or a 20 mile visual straight in. That and it's real busy, and there is a departure/missed procedure there which sucks when you do it the first time.

That area is just jam packed with traffic into and out of Hemet-Ryan and Ontario, as well as March. Not really the best place for practice work, its more of those "one to a full stop" places.
 
That area is just jam packed with traffic into and out of Hemet-Ryan and Ontario, as well as March. Not really the best place for practice work, its more of those "one to a full stop" places.

Yeah unfortunately there were a couple IP's that I did fam flights with back @ -101 that loved the pain. I remember doing an out and in on one of my first Hornet flights, KNKX-->KRIV-->KNTD-->KNYL-->KNKX. God that was a chocolate mess :)
 
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