Traditional or AQP ATP?

Jet

Jet

Well-Known Member
The airline I work for has had AQP for a while but was just approved to give FO's an ATP PIC type via AQP. Who has AQP at their airline? What do you think? The regular style is demanding yet predictable but I don't know much about AQP. I will have the option to bid based on my seniority for either style check ride but I'm not sure yet which way to go. Thoughts?
 
Most people prefer the AQP route because it is much easier to digest. We've been trying to get it going here and I sampled a little bit of it and seems pretty nice. I've done the Dash-8 and ATR-42/72 the old way which isn't completely horrible but there is more stress.
 
AQP for sure. 2 days of ground. 2 days of sim. First day of sim consist of maneuvers, approaches, engine failures, etc. Second day of sim is like a LOFT. Fly from point A to point B. Just like a line flight with a failure or two. The only way to fail an AQP, or my airlines AQP, is to fail the LOE. (LOFT flight). LOE is broken into segments. Taxi, takeoff, cruise, decent, etc. We get to repeat two segments if we mess up on them.
 
AQP here as well... 1 day of ground and 2 sim sessions - both are jeopardy events now - with two allowable repeats.
 
My airline doesn't have AQP (or not that I know of). Anyone care to explain?
 
I just went through my first AQP training, and it is a LOT better than the traditional training I was used to. It's a lot less stress, so IMO, you learn better.
 
I've done two initials at my company - one without and one with AQP. The AQP event was for a full type, and I definitely preferred it. Much better in many ways.
 
AQP... Having done both, the old RFT/Checkride format was definitely a cram it, test it, forget it method which rarely featured any new twists or turns in the process. Sadly to say this quite often resulted in very little or no learning over the course of the years. With AQP you get to do the stuff you need to review (V1 cuts, Cat II approaches, system failures) and then you get something completely practical that you might never have seen before. I've done two years worth of AQP now and it has definitely taught me a lot more.
 
I've done both. At Comair we had AQP and that was all I knew. Like others have said before, it is great. The tradition checkride potion (V1 cut, CAT II, Stall, Steep turns) are now on Day 1 and called Manuvers validation. This becomes a "train to proficieny event. There is a lot less stress involved! The 2nd day, as others have said, is just a point to point flight with 1 or 2 failures along the way. Not too bad.

The non AQP is rough. I had significant time in type (from Comair) and I found this difficult. Stalls, steep turns, V1 cuts, (we even did a V2 cut) was hard when there wasn't any change for a redo. It is 1 strike you're out kinda deal. I think we are moving toward AQP, but boy do I miss it.
 
I completed AQP for my ATP and PIC type. I found it to be less stressful than my initial training and SIC type.

Here's the part I don't understand...
I now have an ATP.
I have a PIC type.
When I upgrade to Captain, what new flying skills will I be checked on aside from using the tiller and flying from the other seat? Haven't I already done everything required? My understanding is that my flight check will be a 121.441 Proficiency Check rather than a type ride. What's the difference?
 
You will do a line check when you upgrade... but as far as the items tested and the standards... they're the same. Obviously all the flows will be from the left seat though.
 
My airline just got AQP this past summer. From what I gather, when I upgrade I will already have my ATP and PIC type but they are making us still do the full shebang with a grueling 2hr oral and PC. My company is militant like that though. Hate to give up the power of screwing with the captain upgrades. I would figure a normal PC oral and a simple PC and that should be it...doesn't seem so.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
My airline just got AQP this past summer. From what I gather, when I upgrade I will already have my ATP and PIC type but they are making us still do the full shebang with a grueling 2hr oral and PC. My company is militant like that though. Hate to give up the power of screwing with the captain upgrades. I would figure a normal PC oral and a simple PC and that should be it...doesn't seem so.
Click to expand...

The upgrade training is more about decision making and being captain than flying skills. The type rating and ATP you have isn't what makes you a captain, the change in mindset does. That captain training puts you in the captain mindset (or at least starts the process). To skip it would be a huge mistake.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
The upgrade training is more about decision making and being captain than flying skills. The type rating and ATP you have isn't what makes you a captain, the change in mindset does. That captain training puts you in the captain mindset (or at least starts the process). To skip it would be a huge mistake.
Click to expand...

But do you think that the upgrade courses that exist at regional airlines will survive when the company could do a shorter course and save money?
 
Old Dominion Flyer said:
I completed AQP for my ATP and PIC type. I found it to be less stressful than my initial training and SIC type.

Here's the part I don't understand...
I now have an ATP.
I have a PIC type.
When I upgrade to Captain, what new flying skills will I be checked on aside from using the tiller and flying from the other seat? Haven't I already done everything required? My understanding is that my flight check will be a 121.441 Proficiency Check rather than a type ride. What's the difference?
Click to expand...

That's correct. An upgrade if you're already fully typed will include a standard PC, not a type ride.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
The upgrade training is more about decision making and being captain than flying skills. The type rating and ATP you have isn't what makes you a captain, the change in mindset does. That captain training puts you in the captain mindset (or at least starts the process). To skip it would be a huge mistake.
Click to expand...

By the time you upgrade, you should already be in the mind set. An FO that's coming up on upgrade shouldn't wait until they're in upgrade training to switch mind sets. Granted, the CA you're flying with still has final authority, but when you're at cruise staring out the window, there's no reason you can't run scenarios through your head like "If I had a medical emergency RIGHT NOW, where would be a few good places to go?" or "The weather is good today and we don't have an alternate planned, but what if a freak thunderstorm rollled in right at arrival. Where could we go with the fuel we have?" It's the mental gymnastics that can set you down the CA thinking path.
 
"easy" street? AQP. However, i'd rather earn my ATP, so I'm going with a Part 121 ATP Oral/sim ride. :) . Where you grow serious gahonez...
 
KHanson said:
"easy" street? AQP. However, i'd rather earn my ATP, so I'm going with a Part 121 ATP Oral/sim ride. :) . Where you grow serious gahonez...
Click to expand...
Really? You do realize that the maneuvers validation is the same as the standard 121 ride, right? So you actually do the traditional stuff and more in AQP (decision making scenarios). Oh Oh Oh and some airlines even make you do an MV from both seats while going through training before your type ride. AQP isn't easier, one just receives alot more training so the ride and various validations end up being easier but I am sure you knew that with your extensive AQP experience. How exciting!
 
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