Track vs. Heading

G

GV Guy

New Member
Question for tower and departure controllers...

Westchester 4 departure off of runway 34 says to climb heading 342 to 1000', then climbing LEFT turn heading 295. Maintain 3000'.

My FMS box has the departure in the data base, and the box says all of this - heading to, heading to...
Unfortunately my box (the flight director) only knows track while flying in the NAV mode. In a clam wind situation the heading and the track will be the same, but like a while ago the winds were a direct right crosswind and in the NAV mode it corrects into the wind to track 342 (actually flying something like 010 degrees). We discussed and I replied to the other guy that we really should be flying this departure in the HDG mode rather than the NAV mode because we didn't actually fly the heading required.

Do you guys notice this, my feeling is a lot of pilots don't fully understand this track vs heading departure requirements. Thanks
 
We notice it. We notice it more coming off of 16 at hpn, with a strong wind the departures get blown back into the final. I've made some recommendations to explore an rnav SIDE off of 16 we'll see how far it goes.
 
Thanks, the problem I see is that in the box it does describe the procedure as HDG to - HDG to and pilots think the box will fly a heading, which considering the technology today, one would think it would, but it doesn't. Honeywell (the manufacturer) even put out a letter to users saying that. Thanks for your replies.
 
GV Guy said:
Thanks, the problem I see is that in the box it does describe the procedure as HDG to - HDG to and pilots think the box will fly a heading, which considering the technology today, one would think it would, but it doesn't. Honeywell (the manufacturer) even put out a letter to users saying that. Thanks for your replies.
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To answer you question YES if the procedure says HDG fly HDG, flying track at times might put you some place we dont want you.
 
The Whitestone climb off LGA we see it quite often, strong norheast wind supposed to fly a 180 heading and it track like a 210 200, I personally would prefer a track rather a heading. I'd say that most of these sids were designed with 0 wind in mind
 
One of my favorite aviation anecdotes involved an aircraft flying straight when it was supposed to be turning.

ATC: MergerLines401 verify you are turning to a 300 heading?
401: Yeah, we put it in the box. We were wondering why it wasn't turning.
ATC: Merger401 confirm there are pilots on board.
401: Heading 300, 401.
 
RABIRZA69 said:
The Whitestone climb off LGA we see it quite often, strong norheast wind supposed to fly a 180 heading and it track like a 210 200, I personally would prefer a track rather a heading. I'd say that most of these sids were designed with 0 wind in mind
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Why does the Whitestone Climb turn you right....only to turn you left again. Why not just a left turn?
 
RABIRZA69 said:
The Whitestone climb off LGA we see it quite often, strong norheast wind supposed to fly a 180 heading and it track like a 210 200, I personally would prefer a track rather a heading. I'd say that most of these sids were designed with 0 wind in mind
Click to expand...
I think they were designed before widely-used equipment that gave track information. No real way to do it other than heading. That's where the new RNAV departures come into play.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Looks that way. Initial climb over water before turning. Probably also gets you high enough to cross over traffic landing at JFK.
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When kennedy is landing 22L&R we can't do the Whitestone climb the we revert to ththe flushing on TNNIS RNAV off of 13. We never have to top the JFK arrivals.
 
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