Tough Qs on the CFI-initial
- Thread starter E_Dawg
- Start date
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
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flight by reference to instruments
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Alchemy .. that phrase is the key. The FAA makes it a point to call training for private pilots "flight by reference to instruments" and everything else "instrument training." Instrument training includes, IFR procedures, ATC procedures, etc. Flight by ref. to instruments is just that ... basic attitude flying off the instruments.
That's an awfully crappy question to get failed on, though. I'm starting to get nervous ...
flight by reference to instruments
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Alchemy .. that phrase is the key. The FAA makes it a point to call training for private pilots "flight by reference to instruments" and everything else "instrument training." Instrument training includes, IFR procedures, ATC procedures, etc. Flight by ref. to instruments is just that ... basic attitude flying off the instruments.
That's an awfully crappy question to get failed on, though. I'm starting to get nervous ...
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
61.109(a)(3)
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3 hours of flight training in a single engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, including straight and level flight, constant airspeed climbs and descents, turns to a heading, recovery from u nusual flight attitudes, radio communications, and the use of navigation systems/facilites and radar services appropriate to instrument flight;
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So the difference in semantics is "flight training in a single engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments" vs "instrument training". Didn't realize there was a difference. I was under the impression that a CFI with no II could give instrument instruction, only they couldn't sign anyone off for a practical, IPC, or instrument written.
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3 hours of flight training in a single engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, including straight and level flight, constant airspeed climbs and descents, turns to a heading, recovery from u nusual flight attitudes, radio communications, and the use of navigation systems/facilites and radar services appropriate to instrument flight;
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So the difference in semantics is "flight training in a single engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments" vs "instrument training". Didn't realize there was a difference. I was under the impression that a CFI with no II could give instrument instruction, only they couldn't sign anyone off for a practical, IPC, or instrument written.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
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That's an awfully crappy question to get failed on, though. I'm starting to get nervous ...
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You got that right. I happened to know that one, but only because I'd been asked it before and did the research. It makes me wonder though, how many of those little nitpicky things are out there that I might be misunderstanding? Not many, I hope.
That's an awfully crappy question to get failed on, though. I'm starting to get nervous ...
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You got that right. I happened to know that one, but only because I'd been asked it before and did the research. It makes me wonder though, how many of those little nitpicky things are out there that I might be misunderstanding? Not many, I hope.
A word of advice to all getting ready to take their CFI ride. When explaining a concept / manuever / hazard / anything, don't dig yourself into a hole...meaning, don't mention something in an explanation unless you are ready to "demonstrate instructional knowledge" about it. The examiner loves those sort of things.
Example Question: What is wake turbulence?
Answer: A disturbance in the air caused by the low pressure (fast moving) air above the wing and the high pressure (slower moving) air below the wing mixing at the wing tip.
If you go into how wake turbulence can move...ATC precautions for wake turbulence...wing planforms that minimize wake turbulence...etc in your explanation, the examiner will jump on those topics and want you to expand. Just keep your answers simple, like you would in teaching a student about them.
Example Question: What is wake turbulence?
Answer: A disturbance in the air caused by the low pressure (fast moving) air above the wing and the high pressure (slower moving) air below the wing mixing at the wing tip.
If you go into how wake turbulence can move...ATC precautions for wake turbulence...wing planforms that minimize wake turbulence...etc in your explanation, the examiner will jump on those topics and want you to expand. Just keep your answers simple, like you would in teaching a student about them.
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
Well, since we are on the subject, does the original 3 hours from the private count towards the 15 required for the instrument (instructor hours)?
E_Dawg
Moderator
If the training was from a CFI (not CFII) then no.
But if it was from a CFII maybe - for students they need 3 hours of 'flight by reference to instruments' (which is why a CFI can do it), but for the instrument they need 15 hours of 'instrument training'.
I think it'd be fine unless you get a REALLY anal examiner. But the reality is you'll have more than 15 from the CFII by the time you take the ride anyways.
But if it was from a CFII maybe - for students they need 3 hours of 'flight by reference to instruments' (which is why a CFI can do it), but for the instrument they need 15 hours of 'instrument training'.
I think it'd be fine unless you get a REALLY anal examiner. But the reality is you'll have more than 15 from the CFII by the time you take the ride anyways.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
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But the reality is you'll have more than 15 from the CFII by the time you take the ride anyways.
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I don't know, Ed...I had about 15.1 when I took my Instrument ride....
It can be done, if you go into it with the mindset that it can.
But the reality is you'll have more than 15 from the CFII by the time you take the ride anyways.
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I don't know, Ed...I had about 15.1 when I took my Instrument ride....
It can be done, if you go into it with the mindset that it can.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
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Were you able to count the hours you got during the private training?
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No. When I did my instrument time during my private training, my CFI didn't have his CFII...
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Were you able to count the hours you got during the private training?
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No. When I did my instrument time during my private training, my CFI didn't have his CFII...
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
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And if you can get a good safety pilot for a majority of those 40 hours of hood time.
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35 hours of Sim. Instrument with a safety pilot...I'm a proponent of that!!! Why pay a CFII to fly with you, when you can have a buddy do it for free!!
And if you can get a good safety pilot for a majority of those 40 hours of hood time.
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35 hours of Sim. Instrument with a safety pilot...I'm a proponent of that!!! Why pay a CFII to fly with you, when you can have a buddy do it for free!!
E_Dawg
Moderator
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No. When I did my instrument time during my private training, my CFI didn't have his CFII...
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Here's a question, even if your CFI did have his 'I, do you think you could have counted it towards the instrument rating?
I bet you can NOT... a 'regular' CFI can give it because the FAA makes the distinction between 'instrument training' (needed for the 15hrs) vs 'flight by reference to instruments'... but this is just a guess.
No. When I did my instrument time during my private training, my CFI didn't have his CFII...
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Here's a question, even if your CFI did have his 'I, do you think you could have counted it towards the instrument rating?
I bet you can NOT... a 'regular' CFI can give it because the FAA makes the distinction between 'instrument training' (needed for the 15hrs) vs 'flight by reference to instruments'... but this is just a guess.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
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No. When I did my instrument time during my private training, my CFI didn't have his CFII...
.
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Here's a question, even if your CFI did have his 'I, do you think you could have counted it towards the instrument rating?
I bet you can NOT... a 'regular' CFI can give it because the FAA makes the distinction between 'instrument training' (needed for the 15hrs) vs 'flight by reference to instruments'... but this is just a guess.
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I would agree with you about 92%. These are seperate regulations, and if you remember, the aims are completely different. The PPL training is oriented towards an emergency situation, whereas the instrument training is to make you comfortable.
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No. When I did my instrument time during my private training, my CFI didn't have his CFII...
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's a question, even if your CFI did have his 'I, do you think you could have counted it towards the instrument rating?
I bet you can NOT... a 'regular' CFI can give it because the FAA makes the distinction between 'instrument training' (needed for the 15hrs) vs 'flight by reference to instruments'... but this is just a guess.
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I would agree with you about 92%. These are seperate regulations, and if you remember, the aims are completely different. The PPL training is oriented towards an emergency situation, whereas the instrument training is to make you comfortable.
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