Took-off out of Chico, CA

Douglas

Douglas

Old School KSUX
Controllers:

You are working Tracon or Center, an aircraft just departed a Class Delta airfield with a clearance of "direct VOR, 4,000".
Tower didn't assign runway heading, heading or give a departure procedure.

When that aircraft checks on, what do you say?

Do you the controller have to say, "cleared direct VOR"
I understand that it would be clearing the same aircraft to the same spot twice, since you did it once on a land line to Tower and then again to the aircraft, but don't you typically do that?
 
did you get the departure or was it to ILA?

As a pilot I would say my clearance when checking on.. Oakland Center T23 direct Williams 2500 climbing 4000....
 
Oh makes sense, RBL is on the approach to RDD, (I figure you know but for those reading that don't) so when you check in you should receive the approach clearance...
 
This all comes from this morning, I was passing through 1,000 feet AGL when I switched over to Center. I could see I was able to pick up RBL at that altitude and expected to make turn shortly there after. The controller came back with simply, "roger". I'm not used to getting just, "roger", so I thought he was going to look at something and get right back to me with something. Now I'm passing 3,000 MSL and he comes back with, "YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY." (13L was the take-off runway). haha...oh no.
I then turn direct.

Saying what I'm doing right when I check-on would have solved the issue immediately. I'll do that instead of just altitude.
 
What were you doing all the way up to 3000 MSL? Runway heading?

In the absence of a tower assigned heading, assigned departure procedure, or published obstacle departure procedure, you should turn on course as soon as practical after takeoff. My operation defines this as 400 ft in VMC (and assuming VMC can be mandated up to cleared altitude) or 1500 ft in IMC. The 400 figure is based on aircraft performance and the 1500 figure is based off the TERPS, iirc. I think those numbers would work just fine for part 91 ops too.

Sometimes pilots get confused in the IFR environment when tower just says "cleared for takeoff runway XX" and nothing more. This really comes into play in a place like DCA and Runway 1. Guess what happens if you take that to mean "fly runway heading"? Some dude starts pointing a missile at you in short order.

You have to look at your ODP's, and/or company mandated departures, and absent those things you still turn as soon as obstacle clearance can be assured.
 
All of our LOAs with VFR towers state specific headings for departures, but even then an aircraft comes off one of them or an uncontrolled field I always either restate the initial clearance or a variation based off of traffic. Why? because then I know that the pilot knows what to do, there is no grey area, a lot of our procedures are based off of keeping the satellite traffic from conflicting with the major traffic flows. Sometimes it only takes 1 minute on the incorrect heading to put an aircraft in a dangerous position.
 
Always state if a previous controller gave you a heading or a direct to with the next controller.

ie Departure, 123XY, 2,500 climbing 5,000, in the right turn heading 110.

or

Center, 123XY, FL250, direct Seal Beach

We've had times coming out of Chicago where the guy I was flying with didn't let the Center controller know that we were on a 090 heading and I didn't catch it.

The result? Flying a 090 heading past our first way point and about 30 degrees off course to the next way point. Then center called and asked if were direct to our next way point...
 
Douglas said:
...controller came back with simply, "roger". I'm not used to getting just, "roger", so I thought he was going to look at something and get right back to me with something. Now I'm passing 3,000 MSL and he comes back with, "YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY." (13L was the take-off runway). haha...oh no.
I then turn direct.

Saying what I'm doing right when I check-on would have solved the issue immediately. I'll do that instead of just altitude.
Click to expand...

you know, actually just following your original plan until they give you a different assignment would have avoided this as well. Thanks for sharing ;) We all need to learn from one another. (kindly)

I post this every so often, but a plaque on the wall of my kitchen when I was growing up said, "Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have time to make them all yourself."
 
Bumblebee said:
you know, actually just following your original plan until they give you a different assignment would have avoided this as well. Thanks for sharing ;) We all need to learn from one another. (kindly)

I post this every so often, but a plaque on the wall of my kitchen when I was growing up said, "Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have time to make them all yourself."
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I hope my post doesn't come off as harsh. I'm only here to help. A lot of people make these types of mistakes otherwise we wouldn't see as many planes violating the airspace over the capitol & white house as we do.
 
Basic rule of thumb is if tower told you a certain heading/altitude/direct to, approach/center knows about it either because its in their letter of agreement or the radar controller issued tower those instructions (I know you understand that, but for the benefit of others who may not). I typically do not restate anything off a satellite to an aircraft that should have been relayed by tower and expect the turn when at a safe altitude to do so.

The only time I do restate is when I'm trying to be super duper sure in a minimum separation situation. That said, telling me what you're doing on check in is always welcome in my book.
 
Whenever I get a freq change I always report my altitude and altitude climbing or descending to if I am not level, and the what I am direct to. I have been given a clearance from a controller, then been handed off and they didn't coordinate. So this squashes any confusion.
 
Well thanks all for the responses.
The second time I got that clearance it went much better. haha

Also, saying what I'm doing on initial contact has been a natural transition and it came in handy last night.
Clearance was again direct RBL, so I went direct RBL and I said so on initial contact. Center came back with, "wait...confirm you're on the departure procedure". "Negative, Direct RBL". "Fly runway heading for traffic." haha still can't win them all.
 
this is a win! This prevented a potential conflict, and you were following your instructions... perfect!
Douglas said:
Well thanks all for the responses.
The second time I got that clearance it went much better. haha

Also, saying what I'm doing on initial contact has been a natural transition and it came in handy last night.
Clearance was again direct RBL, so I went direct RBL and I said so on initial contact. Center came back with, "wait...confirm you're on the departure procedure". "Negative, Direct RBL". "Fly runway heading for traffic." haha still can't win them all.
Click to expand...
 
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