To my CR7 and CR9 bretheren out there...

WestIndian425

Well-Known Member
I have a Just Planes DVD of Styrian Spirit (no longer exists) CRJ-200/700, and although I've seen it more times than I can count, I'm still shocked at how easy the CRJ-700 seems to be to operate compared to the older siblings. To start, you just push a button (no ingniter switch)?!:insane: FADEC engines (takeoff power, climb thrust, automatically set)?!:insane:

More passengers, less work...go figure.
 
They pretty much fixed all the problems with the -200 on the -700. The engines are powerful enough to actually get the plane off the ground with a full load in the summer and climb through the low 3s before it starts to run out of power. The ignition system is nice as well (funny story about that in a sec). The best part though is the bleeds are automatic. No more switching the 10th from the APU to the engines and back. Also the packs shut themselves off during start so you don't mess with them. On a similar note the generators stay in auto so you don't have to do anything with them unless there is a problem.

The one problem is that the -700 (and I assume the -900) is a different beast to land then the -200. Landing the 2 is pretty easy. Just get it over the runway, cut the power and hold it level. If you try that with the 700 you are going to end up putting the wheels through the wings. It requires a very stable approach and keeping the nose up high (just like a real airplane!)

So, the funny story.

We were taxiing a -200 out of Boston and departing 4R. It was my first trip back on the 200 in about a month. Airways Gates are back by the cargo ramp across from Delta so it is a bit of a taxi. Because of that we were going single engine. We get around the corner and see about 8 planes in front of us lined up for the runway. At that point ground puts us on a bypass taxi way and tells us we will be number one due to spacing out the departure gates and to be ready to go as soon as possible.

So I start up on the delayed engine start procedures (packs off, pumps on, ignition armed). I call them complete but in my rush (RUSH=BAD) I must have not hit the ignition switch hard enough to turn it on. I think I saw the light turn on but apparently not. Anyhow, I hit the start switch for number 1, hack the clock for the starter limit, see the ITT drop, the N2 and N1 spin up (you need N1 prior to light off on the -200) and push the thrust lever up out of cutoff. Well after about 30 seconds and not getting any light off I call an aborted start and cut off the throttle.

Delta is taxiing behind us and at that point they transmit on ground "Delta XXX ground... Tell that US Air Express that he is blowing smoke out his left engine." Thanks guys, it's not smoke... That's raw JetA.

So, lesson learned (besides DOUBLE checking a checklist), make sure that the ignition arms before bringing up the thrust lever.

Moral of the story, I like the 700 much more, not because I feel more important flying a bigger airplane, but because it has performance and the systems are much easier.
 
So, lesson learned (besides DOUBLE checking a checklist), make sure that the ignition arms before bringing up the thrust lever.

Moral of the story, I like the 700 much more, not because I feel more important flying a bigger airplane, but because it has performance and the systems are much easier.


Lesson #2, always check your status messages. :)

I like the -200 cause I like to push buttons.
 
I like the -200 cause I like to push buttons.

We'll come back to that one once NWA gives you guys the 700s or 900s.

I'm such a monkey about the button pushing... The ice light came on. What did I do? Pushed it hoping it would go out. Duh!
 
They pretty much fixed all the problems with the -200 on the -700. The engines are powerful enough to actually get the plane off the ground with a full load in the summer and climb through the low 3s before it starts to run out of power. The ignition system is nice as well. The best part though is the bleeds are automatic. No more switching the 10th from the APU to the engines and back. Also the packs shut themselves off during start so you don't mess with them. On a similar note the generators stay in auto so you don't have to do anything with them unless there is a problem.

The one problem is that the -700 (and I assume the -900) is a different beast to land then the -200. Landing the 2 is pretty easy. Just get it over the runway, cut the power and hold it level. If you try that with the 700 you are going to end up putting the wheels through the wings. It requires a very stable approach and keeping the nose up high (just like a real airplane!)

It's so weird to see these guys on the DVD just reach up and touch one button, and we see the whole start sequence on the MFD.

Is minimum clean really around 200kts?
 
Is minimum clean really around 200kts?

Don't know about the 700, but clean maneuvering for the 200 can be in the 200kt range.

Landing the 2 is pretty easy. Just get it over the runway, cut the power and hold it level.

The 200 is easy to land for sure, but it's a really bizarre picture on landing. The first time I jumpsat in one I was convinced we were going to crash.
 
Man, took me weeks to NOT try to flare the thing too high. I was afraid I was gonna lawn dart the thing for the longest time.

You can clean manuever at 200 kts, but if I've got flaps 8, I'll use 'em.
 
So, the funny story.

We were taxiing a -200 out of Boston and departing 4R. It was my first trip back on the 200 in about a month. Airways Gates are back by the cargo ramp across from Delta so it is a bit of a taxi. Because of that we were going single engine. We get around the corner and see about 8 planes in front of us lined up for the runway. At that point ground puts us on a bypass taxi way and tells us we will be number one due to spacing out the departure gates and to be ready to go as soon as possible.

So I start up on the delayed engine start procedures (packs off, pumps on, ignition armed). I call them complete but in my rush (RUSH=BAD) I must have not hit the ignition switch hard enough to turn it on. I think I saw the light turn on but apparently not. Anyhow, I hit the start switch for number 1, hack the clock for the starter limit, see the ITT drop, the N2 and N1 spin up (you need N1 prior to light off on the -200) and push the thrust lever up out of cutoff. Well after about 30 seconds and not getting any light off I call an aborted start and cut off the throttle.

Delta is taxiing behind us and at that point they transmit on ground "Delta XXX ground... Tell that US Air Express that he is blowing smoke out his left engine." Thanks guys, it's not smoke... That's raw JetA.

So, lesson learned (besides DOUBLE checking a checklist), make sure that the ignition arms before bringing up the thrust lever.

Moral of the story, I like the 700 much more, not because I feel more important flying a bigger airplane, but because it has performance and the systems are much easier.

I've never done that. ;)
 
They pretty much fixed all the problems with the -200 on the -700. The engines are powerful enough to actually get the plane off the ground with a full load in the summer and climb through the low 3s before it starts to run out of power. The ignition system is nice as well (funny story about that in a sec). The best part though is the bleeds are automatic. No more switching the 10th from the APU to the engines and back. Also the packs shut themselves off during start so you don't mess with them. On a similar note the generators stay in auto so you don't have to do anything with them unless there is a problem.

The one problem is that the -700 (and I assume the -900) is a different beast to land then the -200. Landing the 2 is pretty easy. Just get it over the runway, cut the power and hold it level. If you try that with the 700 you are going to end up putting the wheels through the wings. It requires a very stable approach and keeping the nose up high (just like a real airplane!)

So, the funny story.

We were taxiing a -200 out of Boston and departing 4R. It was my first trip back on the 200 in about a month. Airways Gates are back by the cargo ramp across from Delta so it is a bit of a taxi. Because of that we were going single engine. We get around the corner and see about 8 planes in front of us lined up for the runway. At that point ground puts us on a bypass taxi way and tells us we will be number one due to spacing out the departure gates and to be ready to go as soon as possible.

So I start up on the delayed engine start procedures (packs off, pumps on, ignition armed). I call them complete but in my rush (RUSH=BAD) I must have not hit the ignition switch hard enough to turn it on. I think I saw the light turn on but apparently not. Anyhow, I hit the start switch for number 1, hack the clock for the starter limit, see the ITT drop, the N2 and N1 spin up (you need N1 prior to light off on the -200) and push the thrust lever up out of cutoff. Well after about 30 seconds and not getting any light off I call an aborted start and cut off the throttle.

Delta is taxiing behind us and at that point they transmit on ground "Delta XXX ground... Tell that US Air Express that he is blowing smoke out his left engine." Thanks guys, it's not smoke... That's raw JetA.

So, lesson learned (besides DOUBLE checking a checklist), make sure that the ignition arms before bringing up the thrust lever.

Moral of the story, I like the 700 much more, not because I feel more important flying a bigger airplane, but because it has performance and the systems are much easier.

Dude, you're an idiot! How could you miss something like that? Yeah right!

I've had CLT ground come on and tell me that #1 is smoking before I figured out what was going on.
 
200 kias in a swept wing jet is not unusual for a min manuevering speed. Heck, in the Citation Ultra the min. manuevering speed can be close to 150 kias and it's a 15,000 pound striaght wing jet.

Jason
Actually, I was thinking that it would have been at least 210 for the 700; I wasn't aware it was 200. That's pretty good. The Citation's speeds I do know (well, except for the X).
 
Actually, I was thinking that it would have been at least 210 for the 700; I wasn't aware it was 200. That's pretty good. The Citation's speeds I do know (well, except for the X).

The speed is going to change based on weight anyways. I normally add 10 to the min speed for the flap setting off the card and use that as a slowest I can go with out going to the next setting. The 700 speeds are considerably lower due to have slats. The 200 really should have leading edge stuff but it doesn't and hence the high speeds.

With out looking at a speedbook I think the slowest I'll get unconfigured is 190. I think the flaps 0 speed at 47k (Max landing weight) is around 175 so that +10 (plus some for grandpa) gives me 190 as the slowest I can go. I'm not sure about the 700 but I use the same method.

One other thing of note... our speed schedule (not that ATC ever lets us do it) is flaps 8 slow to 180, flaps 20 slow to 170, gear down, flaps 30 slow to 160 and then flaps 45 and refspeed+5. The problem is per that procedure if ATC asks for 160 we have to put out the gear. That burns a lot of gas when you are 20 miles from the airport on the downwind still. I normally will ask for out of order flaps 30 and hold off on the gear. Some captains flip out about this and worry about forgetting the gear (it's only on 2 more checklists and has a horn) and won't do it. Most don't have a problem though.
 
Oh, wah! :)

Some of the clean manuevering speeds in the MD-90 can top 260 knots when near MGTOW.
 
One other thing of note... our speed schedule (not that ATC ever lets us do it) is flaps 8 slow to 180, flaps 20 slow to 170, gear down, flaps 30 slow to 160 and then flaps 45 and refspeed+5. The problem is per that procedure if ATC asks for 160 we have to put out the gear. That burns a lot of gas when you are 20 miles from the airport on the downwind still. I normally will ask for out of order flaps 30 and hold off on the gear. Some captains flip out about this and worry about forgetting the gear (it's only on 2 more checklists and has a horn) and won't do it. Most don't have a problem though.

I recently flew with a check airman who said flaps 30 with no gear is now approved, however the next week I had a different check airman scold me when I called for flaps 30 with no gear. I referred him to the other check airman and they agreed it's approved, but I haven't seen it in writing.

Also, I thought the slowest ATC can ask of a turbine aircraft in the terminal area is 170. I thought that was in the AIM or something, but I'm too lazy to get up off my buttocks.
 
Oh, wah! :)

Some of the clean manuevering speeds in the MD-90 can top 260 knots when near MGTOW.

Geez, that's high! I wonder how that compares with the heavies...

The speed is going to change based on weight anyways. I normally add 10 to the min speed for the flap setting off the card and use that as a slowest I can go with out going to the next setting. The 700 speeds are considerably lower due to have slats. The 200 really should have leading edge stuff but it doesn't and hence the high speeds.

One other thing of note... our speed schedule (not that ATC ever lets us do it) is flaps 8 slow to 180, flaps 20 slow to 170, gear down, flaps 30 slow to 160 and then flaps 45 and refspeed+5. The problem is per that procedure if ATC asks for 160 we have to put out the gear. That burns a lot of gas when you are 20 miles from the airport on the downwind still. I normally will ask for out of order flaps 30 and hold off on the gear. Some captains flip out about this and worry about forgetting the gear (it's only on 2 more checklists and has a horn) and won't do it. Most don't have a problem though.

I'm assuming then that the gear horn won't sound at flaps 30?

It's funny how ATC hardly ever lets you guys work according to your speed schedule. Granted, it's usually for legitimate reasons.
 
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