Seggy and I were just continuing here so the FA thread wouldn't be sent on a tangent with the JS talk that was starting, and I was asking Nick for elaboration on the CAL guy he described.
To make it CLEAR.......
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
Seggy and I were just continuing here so the FA thread wouldn't be sent on a tangent with the JS talk that was starting, and I was asking Nick for elaboration on the CAL guy he described.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
I sensed one too.....
Todd,
Sorry but if I am flying with an arse of a Captain who is just denying to deny, I would speak with them about it in a professional manner. Yes they have the final say, but if I feel it is getting to a point where I will remove myself from a trip due to them not being able to keep things professional as a whole I have that right.... This whole power trip of I have the fourth stripe and will use the jumpseat as a power tool I do not support nor will condone. Let alone the fact they are making a decision that is then representing me and my company and may affect my chances of getting home at some point.. Luckily I have not had to encounter such a power trip and hope to not..... The jumpseat should not be a matter of union politics... Lets use it in the right way and act like professionals... However we know some out there are not able to step up to the plate and do such.....
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
And what exactly are you going to tell your CP when he or she asks why didn't you fly the trip?
There are some captains who don't accept people in the jumpseat at all, I almost got denied on American once by a lady Captain who had that policy but there turned out to be a seat in the back. (Which was surprising considering it was a DFW-SAT flight and they're almost always full.)
There are some captains who don't accept people in the jumpseat at all, I almost got denied on American once by a lady Captain who had that policy but there turned out to be a seat in the back. (Which was surprising considering it was a DFW-SAT flight and they're almost always full.)
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
But did Nick say anywhere in that thread that he DENIED the jumpseat? I for some reason do not believe I saw that anywhere, and then a justification for this thread as a whole? Last time I checked, yes the Captain does have final say. But there are a lot of FO's out there that have far more experience then most of us on this forum... Perhaps we need to just keep the JS as a tool for offline pilots to get home and keep the union BS out of it.... Novel concept perhaps eh?
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Worst case, "I'm sick." Then take it up with pro-standards to get the situation addressed... By using that JS as "his possession" he is representing not only himself, but me and my company. And I rather feel comfortable that if I need a JS later, I wont be denied due to some at my company feeling it is their right to use a JS as a power tool....
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
"WE" as in the crew he was working with... Not bragging about "I" or anything...... Sounds like a power trip by Seggy still here.... He's made a comment back in the day regarding an emergency I had with a CA passing out and I used the words, "Acting as Pilot in Command" and he has a huge issue with that as well. Funny thing is he knew none of the facts behind that story either.... We all realize he has the extra stripe and makes the decisions where his plane goes.... Dont know why we have to have a thread about it.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
That's all well and good. I've had professional conversations with captains in the past for the exact opposite: asking them not to allow a certain pilot for various reasons. In the end, however, the decision is his, and you should honor it. I'm sorry if your ego is bruised because you only have three stripes and he has four, but that's life as an FO. Deal with it.
That will be your prerogative when you're in the left seat. Until then, the decision is up to the guy to your left, and you are free to offer your advice. I hope you're not the kind of guy that doesn't respect captain's authority.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Never said I dont respect the Captains authority. But last I checked its sign as a dual crew? Thus CRM in the events it calls for it? But we are not talking about a safety of flight issue. If we were then I would hope a crew would make the decision as to what to do and we dont have a Captain who things he's some savior to aviation.... I dont care if I have three stripes or two.... The point of the matter was there's no need to use the JS as a power tool... Period.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
That's your opinion, and you don't control the jumpseat. Look, I've been an FO three times in my career, including right now. It sucks. The other guy is the final authority, and it's not always fun, especially when you've been a captain before and remember what it's like to be the "top dog." But that's life. He's in command, he makes the decisions. CRM dictates that you should make your objections known, but after that, he makes the final decision. You may not like it, you may think it's unprofessional, and you may think it isn't dictated by safety, but it's his decision to make on whatever grounds he chooses to make it.
Welcome to the world of the copilot.
Welcome to the world of the copilot.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Thanks for clearing that up Todd. I know what my role is as an FO and my paycheck does not allow me to forget that
.. I guess I should expect nothing less from your or Mark with your rolls in ALPA... I surely hope ALPA National does not condone jumpseat wars in which you two obviously imply you do.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Ahh, when did I EVER say I promote 'jumpseat wars'? I support the PIC's authority.
Appreciate it if you don't put words in my mouth.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Implications.... And I believe I said "Implied." Never put words in there. You too Todd, you did state above you spoke with Captains about keeping guys out of the Jumpseat above did you not?
Mark clear it up then... Why was this thread ever started if it were not for a power trip of some sort? Just would appear to be that way is all... As others mentioned earlier on as well.... Why did you start it?
I do not commute. But I did have a ride from an NWA Captain from MSP-IND... And he basically said, "Thankfully for you theres a seat open in the back or you'd be getting the next one." I realize I was offline and express... But I have a feeling that no matter what this Captain was like some of the before mentioned where he doesnt allow jumpseaters upfront.... I dont understand such a mindset and simply will not agree with it. Even being one whom lives in base that does not commute I simply do not condone such JS wars or not being willing to help a fellow pilot get to where they need by leaving with a full plane and an empty JS..... But I am young and guess this might be a common thing unfortunately.....
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Ditto.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Words in your mouth? Todd you know I respect ya and what you are doing over there... And I wont say it again after this post, because my personal thoughts have already been typed, I simply do not agree nor condone using your JS as a Captain as a power trip/tool.....
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Whoa whoa whoa, you DO NOT want to do that. Call out sick if you're sick, but one of the stupidest things you could probably do would be to call in sick and then call pro stands and say, "Yeah I wasn't sick, I was actually just angry about how the captain was using the jumpseat."
You DO NOT want to abuse the sick call policy.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
:rotfl:
I'd pay money to observe you as a CA. I'll bet you were a real treat to fly with.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
I agree...
I was trying to think of a way to make a point.... Luckily I have not found myself in a situation with such a Captain on a power trip.... Most I have flown with, even some of the worst pilots we discuss on here, are welcomed to ride with them... They keep the JS and politics out of it. First come first serve..... But yes John I agree, you should not abuse the sick call policy. One should not abuse such policies in general....
Now lets all go drink some beer (if off duty) and eat some chips and dip and watch the Super Bowl day activities... GO COLTS
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm just a lowly copilot, so it's not my jumpseat, but I'll defend vehemently the right of any captain to do whatever he chooses with his jumpseat.
I think you'd be surprised.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Which is fine for a jumpseat if that's the road you agree with.... However in other areas it is perfectly ok to disagree.... Remember the tragedy at Tenerife.....