To Hell and Back on a Turboprop

RPM

RPM

Well-Known Member
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Link to full Aspen Times article


To Hell and back on a Turboprop
By Andy Stone
December 2, 2004


"If I'm going to hell when I die - and I have it on very good authority that I am - at least the first part of that experience will not come as a surprise. I know what the scene at the gates of hell will look like.

It will be exactly like the scene that greets your eyes as you approach the end of the moving walkway in Concourse B of Denver International Airport on your way to the dreaded Gate 61.

For those of you lucky enough to have avoided this preview of damnation, I will note that Gate 61 is the departure gate for the United Express flights to Aspen (and, for that matter, Vail) that are operated by Mesa Air.

Mesa Air is the outfit that operates the dinky little prop planes (that's a technical term) that have taken over more and more of the flights into the mountains.

The other United Express flights, the smooth, fast, convenient ones using the bigger four-engine jets are operated by Air Wisconsin. I have plenty of complaints about Air Wisconsin, but there's no doubt about it: Air Wisconsin is Purgatory. Mesa Air is plain old hell."


**click on the link above for the rest of the article
 
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How much was that ticket again?

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EXACTLY!

what is this world coming to, I don't get first class jet service to a resort city for $39.95
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I'll fly on the Dash-8 anyday....she's as tough as they come!
 
They should be so lucky to get air service into a small city like that. It's the media, what can you expect!
 
sounds like another pansy that is afraid of turboprops. Give that guy a flight to Aspen in a turbo 182, he'd probably start sobbing.
 
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The other United Express flights, the smooth, fast, convenient ones using the bigger four-engine jets are operated by Air Wisconsin.

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Four engine jets? Operated by Air Wisconsin? I didn't they they had any 74s!!
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In a sure sign that I have way too much time on my hands, I decided to send our pal Andy a little note. Should I get a response I'll be sure to let you know. Here's what he got:

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Dear Mr. Stone --

I recently read your column in the online edition of
The Aspen Times, and felt compelled to respond.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention
first that I am an airline pilot, employed by a
regional airline. I work for a United Express
carrier, one of the ones not mentioned in your piece,
flying regional jets.

Your "turboprops as hell" screed, while amusing given
the fact that most all veteran air travelers have
experienced travel difficulties from time to time,
only contributes to poor public perception of an
aircraft with an enviable safety record. Dash 8s and
similar turboprops, while perhaps not providing as
smooth or swift a ride as a larger jet, are safe and
efficient aircraft on shorter flights such as those
connecting Aspen and Vail to hubs like Denver.

Why are turboprops used on these flights? There are
many reasons. First, high terrain in the vicinity of
airports like Aspen mandates very strict performance
profiles in any aircraft that will fly there. The
Dash 8 and similar turboprops meet these profiles
quite easily. Second, aircraft size is matched to
passenger demand. Using a 100-seat airplane on a
route which only has 30 customers is a money-losing
proposition. Third, though a turboprop has a slower
cruise speed than a jet, the difference in block
(gate-to-gate) times between a larger jet and a
turboprop is minimal on stage lengths as short as the
200 mile or less hops between Denver and the Ski
Country. Most of the time is spent on taxi out and
in, or on descent and approach where the Dash 8's
speed is comparable to that of a jet. For the portion
of a Denver to Aspen flight spent in cruise, the
difference is cruise speed would equate to no more
than five minutes of flying time on the Dash 8 versus
a jet.

As to discomfort experienced on these flights, the
turbulence over the mountains is associated with wind
and weather patterns unique to the mountains, and is
not intensified by the use of an aircraft that happens
to have propellers on the engines. Unfortunately, the
combination of temperamental weather, high terrain,
and flight at relatively low altitudes (regardless of
its ability to do so, a jet won't climb to a much
higher altitude than a turboprop on such a short
flight) means that mountain flights will sometimes be
turbulent. Rest assured that flight crews like
turbulence no more than you do, and if there's a safe
way out of it, we will find it.

Airlines do add larger jets on flights where demand
dictates. Vail, for example, receives a tremendous
increase in seasonal service (most on Boeing 757s)
during the ski season. While I recognize that folks
live in Ski Country communities year-round, the
tourism business that is largely responsible for
filling the flights is decidedly seasonal in nature.
For those times of year when a jet is not economical,
the Dash 8 should be welcomed. For the alternative is
not, as you'd like to hope, a year-round large jet
service, but rather no service at all. Then your
approach to Denver International would be not in an
airplane at all, but rather your car after a lengthy
drive in from Aspen. After that, I would imagine the
"Gates of Hell" down at B-61 might look rather
inviting.

Should you have any further questions, please don't
hesitate to ask.

Very truly yours,
FL270
 
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The other United Express flights, the smooth, fast, convenient ones using the bigger four-engine jets are operated by Air Wisconsin.

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Four engine jets? Operated by Air Wisconsin? I didn't they they had any 74s!!
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What DT said; British Aerospace 146:

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More information on it here:Air Wisconsin fleet
 
Your email is very professionaly written FL270. I look forward to the response.
 
FL270 has the enviable ability to write without getting pissed off and wanting to rip someone's head off. Which I envy.

Great job FL!
 
Wow - very professional response to the writer. I am impressed with your writing skills. You employed excellent tact in shutting down his arguement. I am anxious to see his response.
 
He might be right about, though, about the status of events at Gate 61 at DEN. Not the fault of the personnel that work there, just a reflection on the upper management of regionals. Least that's how it was told to me.

So far as the turboprop vs jet thing, you people gotta understand......many average-joe-public people only get the impression of "them small prop planes" that's fed to them by the media......I'm not talking about this guy, but about the people he describes in his article (the pax).

I think his rant isn't necessarily against the pilots or the people that provide service....at least I don't read that into what he's writing; I think it's more a reflection on bigger things.
 
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In a sure sign that I have way too much time on my hands, I decided to send our pal Andy a little note.....

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yeahthat.gif


Sir, you have sent Whiny Andy a literary masterpiece!!!!
 
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....many average-joe-public people only get the impression of "them small prop planes" that's fed to them by the media......

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Yeah, and face it, many pax are still nervous fliers. They find comfort in larger airplanes. They believe jets are good, props are bad, and no amount of media input or reality is going to change that. The airlines have already invested a huge amount in the transition from prop to jet because customers DO NOT LIKE PROPS.

Very good letter, but not likely to change the article writer, who was more focused on entertaining his audience than writing a fair piece.
 
As a political cynic and reader of way too many newspapers, 95% of all articles are written just to entertain it's core demographic. Everything from medical news all the way 'down' to politics.
 
People just don't think.

I just got an email from someone telling me that I must be some kind of right wing nut because I said that deregulation was successful. And that, oh, by the way, safety has been compromised.

Let's see, lower prices for tickets, more people flying than ever, tremendous growth in the industry. Yeah, it's been a tremendous failure.

Now, of course there are repercussions from that, and we've seen a lot of airlines disappear like Eastern and Pan Am and unfortunately, US Airways looks like it's going to join them. Further, there's congestion now because of the increased traffic.

And I'm not EVEN going to touch the safety issue.

I closed my retort by saying, yes, only a right wing nut like Jimmy Carter would say that deregulation is good. After all, he's the one who started it.
 
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