Time off vs. Time away

TUCKnTRUCK

TUCKnTRUCK

That guy
In may I started my fmla leave to enjoy the birth of my first kid. For the last month I have been home every night, off on weekends, and actually playing a full time figure in my family. The time has really given me the opertunity to see how much I miss day to day. I guess I really just got used to not being around much.

Short side, If we didn't need the money to move I don't think I would be going back. The money really is not just compensation for what we are forced to do. I don't care what training costs, but if you realisticly want to buy my time the way airlines require, 58 an hour when you require me to be away from home 72-120 hours a week is not even close to fair compensation. When I am treated with a 5 on 2 off schedule the month I return I have no idea what you are expecting. Do you think I will be well rested with 1 night at home? Or when I grab that commute for 7 to 8 hours when I get a chance? I doubt it... This job really is not worth the commitment required for normal day to day operations.
 
Cue. . .

You knew what you were getting into, stop complaining.

Stop being realistic and honest about the career. . .You're liable to scare off some junior members who want to fly a 744 or 777 International one day.

. . .

Or something like that. Just wait for it.
 
I thought i knew what i was getting into... I'm not saying that I was lied to... having 4 weeks off has allowed me to look back, forward and all around. A good chance to see what a normal life is like... and how that differs from what we think it is like.

I think that most of us that Jump into the game pre-family really have no idea what we are missing. Sure, the daily 9-5 grind sucks as well... but at least when your off, your at home.

Also, might note... when I started I was/could be home every night unless we had a mx or wx issue. I worked wed-fri afternoons and credited 90+hrs a month. My day was AUG-BOS-RKD-BOS-RKD-AUG-BOS-RKD-AUG. Blocked at 7:58 Start at 11 am, finish at 9 pm... and a good hour meal break in the middle of the day. The airline was never where I intended to be. I was doing really well for myself running a small brokerage. Generally I would sell an airplane every 2-3months. The last one sold netted a commission check that was larger than the total pay of my first 1.5 years at 9l. When the market turned way south... I fell into another job - 121.

sadly the Beech went away... so EWR it was... and oh how i wish this plane never happened to us now.

Looking back I pretty much wish I could go back to 2006 "Colgan" pre purchase. For most of us 9l guys, you could pretty much say the carpet got pulled out from under us.
 
I know what you mean. I'm in a serious relationship and I'm DREADING being away from her and our family (when we start one)... seriously considering other careers. If I just didn't have so much debt.

Think twice all you guys who think it's great...it's not.
 
I know what you mean. I've been on full-time union leave for the past few months, and it's nice being home every day sleeping in my own bed. I'm usually working 12-16 hour days, but it's still not as bad since I get to go home every night instead of to a strange Comfort Inn bed.
 
TuckNTruck,

I went through the same thing you did. That was the final straw on me deciding to move on to a different lifestyle. The 4on/3off didn't get me any quality time at home.

However, the entire time I have known my wife, I've lived the pilot lifestyle. This is our normal. My sons have only known this new schedule. That is their normal. This life has become my "normal".

While I know I'm gone alot, and there are a multitude of things I miss, I also know being home for 2 weeks and being able to spend great time with my wife and kids balances it out. I didn't have that balance flying domestically.

Is this type of schedule going to last forever in my career? I don't know, but I'm enjoying it to the fullest.

All that being said, I just finished up 16 days at home (no vacation, no sick time), and it was time to get back to work. There gets a point where you need your "normal" schedule. I've learned that if I hit the lottery, I can't retire. ;)

Of course, your lifestyle is a deeply personal issue that only you know what's best. You know the right decisions you need to make to keep yourself healthy and balanced, enabling you to enjoy life to its fullest.
 
surreal1221 said:
Cue. . .

You knew what you were getting into, stop complaining.

Stop being realistic and honest about the career. . .You're liable to scare off some junior members who want to fly a 744 or 777 International one day.

. . .

Or something like that. Just wait for it.
Click to expand...

Realistic and honest? How so? Those who describe the junior regional CA/FO lifestyle are not providing a realistic and honest picture of the entire career in general, in my opinion. They are providing a view into their world.

There are differing viewpoints across the spectrum... You have the opinions of furloughed sub-1000 hour FOs, the opinions of "forever-reserve" FOs at the regionals, the opinions of regional captains who have taken paycuts, the opinions of junior pilots at the majors, and the opinions of pilots who have "made it" and are plugging along enjoying what they do. Then you have the opinions of everyone in between, and more importantly the opinions of those who are not in the airline industry at all. Each has shaped their view of "realism" by their own experience.

Personally, I have had a great career thus far. Even though I took a paycut, which I voted for, I have been very fortunate to keep moving up the ladder. Things have stagnated, but I'm still enjoying my life day to day. Even should I get downgraded, I'd find a way to make things work at my current company, or I'd find another job. The important thing to me is keeping my family and friends close, and enjoying my free time to the fullest. In my view, being away for four days at a time makes me appreciate being home much, much more than I would if I was home every night.

To each their own. We should all feel free to provide our experiences and opinions, and hopefully those who are getting into this career can weigh the positive and negatives and draw their own conclusions. Highlighting only the negatives and calling that "realism" is counter productive. I personally believe those who always paint a bleak picture of this career path have an agenda.

Ugh, I'm tired and this may make little sense. I have plans to get up tomorrow and try to enjoy my days off, so I can go to work and get excited to come home again.
 
I completely understand this point of view. On the other hand however, at least as far as owning a business, you DO NOT leave work at work - it is an all encompassing thing. Even when you are home you are thinking about things and so your statement about "when you are home you are home" is actually contrary to what I think the airline lifestyle would be. To me one of the beauties of flying would be that once you set the parking brake you're done. No payroll to worry about, no clients calling you in your off time needing something urgently, no employees calling with an issue, etc.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Realistic and honest? How so? Those who describe the junior regional CA/FO lifestyle are not providing a realistic and honest picture of the entire career in general, in my opinion. They are providing a view into their world.
Click to expand...

Yes, realistic and honest.

Which, is anything besides the utopian visions of some.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
In may I started my fmla leave to enjoy the birth of my first kid. For the last month I have been home every night, off on weekends, and actually playing a full time figure in my family. The time has really given me the opertunity to see how much I miss day to day. I guess I really just got used to not being around much.

Short side, If we didn't need the money to move I don't think I would be going back. The money really is not just compensation for what we are forced to do. I don't care what training costs, but if you realisticly want to buy my time the way airlines require, 58 an hour when you require me to be away from home 72-120 hours a week is not even close to fair compensation. When I am treated with a 5 on 2 off schedule the month I return I have no idea what you are expecting. Do you think I will be well rested with 1 night at home? Or when I grab that commute for 7 to 8 hours when I get a chance? I doubt it... This job really is not worth the commitment required for normal day to day operations.
Click to expand...

This is the exact reason why I don't particularly want to leave my little segment of aviation. I'm home every night, see my fiance every night, make decent money on first year pay, and get to fly in some pretty challenging conditions. In short, I love my job. I don't know if I could take as much enjoyment out of it with a commute and a hotel stay. Frankly, I don't know if I would be willing to spend that much time away.

Yeah, I don't get to fly jets, or turbo-props, hell, we aren't even IFR really right now, and I'm driving around a glass-cockpit cherokee 6, but to be honest, I doubt I'd be willing to "trade up" even if the market was looking for people because of what being able to be home everynight means to me. Yeah, I want to travel around, and live a wild life, but I sure as hell don't want to do it at the behest of work, I'd much rather have my fun on my own terms.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
If we didn't need the money to move I don't think I would be going back.
Click to expand...

If I didn't need the money I don't think I would work either! I fly charter and let me tell you I am home a lot more than when I worked a "real" job, I am home a lot more than when I was a flight instructor, epecially lately I am home a LOT! Maybe when the economy snaps back you could look at other areas of aviation outside the airlines.

The money really is not just compensation for what we are forced to do.
Click to expand...

Forced? This is the problem with the airline industry. You are not forced to do anything. You are not forced to make a 7 hour commute, you're not forced to be paid such a low amount, you are not forced to work a crappy schedule. I don't know your story, your path, your life but I do know (at least I assume) that no one forced you to be an airline pilot.
 
Before I make my point, let me say first what an excellent job the members of CJC's Organizing committee (some of whom harken back to the failed 2007 attempt) and our current MEC for the outstanding job tehy have done.
My point is that as much as the hearings have laid out the "dirty little secret" that is contract flying by regionals under codesharing. I fear we will not see the kind of changes that will improve either our compensation package, benefits, work rules or quality of life. The magnitude of the problem is going to be inversely proportional to the solutions, and we will be pretty close to square one. The politicans will point, and say, "look what we did" to their constituants and we pilots will be wondering how our quality of life actually became worse due to the "new" rules.
Honestly, I really hope I am wrong. But, as long as this "per-fee" departure crap exists and the legacies shop for the lowest bidder. I just cannot see where the money is going to come from to pay for any increases in pay/benefits. The airlines will resist and present their books showing low yields per RPM. And, the politicians will acquiesce to the needs of the industry to stay in business. Unless one has some kind of hope that the government is going to come in and "bail-out" the airlines and take over some of the functions that the private sector currently fills. The airlines are placed under the pre-1978 regulation era when the Civil Aeronautics Board determined who flew where and for how much. Government reinstates subsidies on trunk routes and we reinvent the airline olgilopoly...Either way, it is going to get worse before it gets better...

Rant complete...
Commence Flame operations...

P.S. And, yes I can't spell for crap.
 
WacoFan said:
I completely understand this point of view. On the other hand however, at least as far as owning a business, you DO NOT leave work at work - it is an all encompassing thing. Even when you are home you are thinking about things and so your statement about "when you are home you are home" is actually contrary to what I think the airline lifestyle would be. To me one of the beauties of flying would be that once you set the parking brake you're done. No payroll to worry about, no clients calling you in your off time needing something urgently, no employees calling with an issue, etc.
Click to expand...

Among my top 5 reasons for wanting to make the career transition. I haven't had a vacation in well over a decade where I didn't spend at least a little time each day (many times more than a little) attending to business issues.
 
WacoFan said:
To me one of the beauties of flying would be that once you set the parking brake you're done. No payroll to worry about, no clients calling you in your off time needing something urgently, no employees calling with an issue, etc.
Click to expand...

That is until you decide to take part in your airlines union. :)
 
WacoFan said:
To me one of the beauties of flying would be that once you set the parking brake you're done. No payroll to worry about, no clients calling you in your off time needing something urgently, no employees calling with an issue, etc.
Click to expand...

Change that to "once you check out on the computer and breathe a sigh of relief scheduling hasn't added another trip or extended you into your day off again, you're done" and I'll agree with you. :)

This past week has made me seriously question why I upgraded and put myself on reserve.
 
kellwolf said:
Change that to "once you check out on the computer and breathe a sigh of relief scheduling hasn't added another trip or extended you into your day off again, you're done" and I'll agree with you. :)

This past week has made me seriously question why I upgraded and put myself on reserve.
Click to expand...

"Hello, Mr. _____, we've got a ferry flight for you when you get back to (your domicile)."


:whatever:
 
FlyChicaga said:
Realistic and honest? How so? Those who describe the junior regional CA/FO lifestyle are not providing a realistic and honest picture of the entire career in general, in my opinion. They are providing a view into their world.

There are differing viewpoints across the spectrum... You have the opinions of furloughed sub-1000 hour FOs, the opinions of "forever-reserve" FOs at the regionals, the opinions of regional captains who have taken paycuts, the opinions of junior pilots at the majors, and the opinions of pilots who have "made it" and are plugging along enjoying what they do. Then you have the opinions of everyone in between, and more importantly the opinions of those who are not in the airline industry at all. Each has shaped their view of "realism" by their own experience.
Click to expand...

Keep making this much sense, Skippy, and I'm going to quote you at the beginning of another article.
 
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