OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
This is a professional site. Act like one. You never know who can get you your next job on here, or who will loose you your next job
Trust me.
Trust me.
Thunderstorm flying B.S.
- Thread starter bidderswede
- Start date
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
Leading by example?
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
I was merely giving frank advice. If you take it or not I don't care. It shows how well some people respond to criticism, thats all.
Who here might be in a position to recommend hiring who for a CFI job
Who here might be in a position to recommend hiring who for a CFI job
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
No, no... I just got some popcorn made and since there is no news on the SLI front, I need some diverting amusement.
Boobies.No, no... I just got some popcorn made and since there is no news on the SLI front, I need some diverting amusement.
Can't say I never gave ya anything.
Speaking of...boobies. There were definetly some nice ones in the ATL Doubletree lobby this morning.
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
tits are VERY good!
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
I actually do stick to the 20NM rule, more if I'm downwind and it's a big'un.
With that said, you have to discriminate based on intensity. You handle a 20NM diameter supercell a lot differently than you do a little 1NM TCU "cell". I believe my FOM says 10NM around cells depicted as Level 3 or lower and 20NM around Level 4 and higher. I try and stick to that. The key is not letting ATC pressure you into flying closer to a cell than you're comfortable with. I know they're dealing with a lot, but they will pressure you, especially in congested terminal areas. "I need you to start turning back to the fix now....." etc. etc. Stick to your gut feeling and don't put your aircraft in danger....they will deal with the traffic, and if not I'll take my chances with TCAS before I'll fly through a wall of hailstones.
With that said, you have to discriminate based on intensity. You handle a 20NM diameter supercell a lot differently than you do a little 1NM TCU "cell". I believe my FOM says 10NM around cells depicted as Level 3 or lower and 20NM around Level 4 and higher. I try and stick to that. The key is not letting ATC pressure you into flying closer to a cell than you're comfortable with. I know they're dealing with a lot, but they will pressure you, especially in congested terminal areas. "I need you to start turning back to the fix now....." etc. etc. Stick to your gut feeling and don't put your aircraft in danger....they will deal with the traffic, and if not I'll take my chances with TCAS before I'll fly through a wall of hailstones.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
My FOM recommends avoidance of 5 nm at the surface tapering up to 20 nm at altitude. Probably because hail very very rarely falls outside of the actual thunderstorm. If you're going to get hail it's 99% chance it'll be in or nearby the TS itself (not scientific # just my WAG). I also agree about staying upwind if you can, that takes the risk out of the equation. But sometimes that just is not possible.
In addition I can guarantee that just about anyone in professional aviation has "broken" that rule as they approach or depart an airport, just in the past 3 years of flying professionally into the east coast hubs such as LGA, PHL, DCA, CLT, ATL, EWR, etc. all carriers will be landing & t/o with storms much closer than that. Actually I take PHL back, if there is any sort of cloud in the sky they're on a ground stop for arriving and departing traffic. But the others hold true.
In addition I can guarantee that just about anyone in professional aviation has "broken" that rule as they approach or depart an airport, just in the past 3 years of flying professionally into the east coast hubs such as LGA, PHL, DCA, CLT, ATL, EWR, etc. all carriers will be landing & t/o with storms much closer than that. Actually I take PHL back, if there is any sort of cloud in the sky they're on a ground stop for arriving and departing traffic. But the others hold true.
bidderswede
New Member
:yeahthat:
I didn't mention when I started this thread that I was talking about low level flying, in and out of airports,(0-10,000ft), and that's where the 20 nm rule becomes non-practicable.
scooter2525
Very well Member
oh your referring to swallows?
SafetyEngineer
New Member
Okay. I have seen the comments so far. I was not going to post on this one for two reasons, 1. I am an investigator not a pilot & 2. there have been some nasty and angry posts that have occured on this thread.
First, the originial question was "Who, ever goes the magic 20 miles around a thunderstorm?" The answer isn't easy, as you have seen by the above posts. Everyone MUST be careful in thunderstorms and when possible fly the 20 miles. That is the reality. I don't have to tell all of you pilots the dangers of flying in thunderstorms, however there are SO many examples where flight crews became either complacent or confused about the conditions they were in. Aug 2 1985 DFW Delta Flight 191, L-1011 Tristar going through a system where a learjet had just landed safely. A mircoburst developed in a very short period of time and the crew didn't have the altitude to recover and we know the end result of that incident. 133 on the jet and 1 on the ground lost their lives. July 2 1994 Charlotte NC USAir Flight 1016. The pilots encountered windshear from a thunderstorm cell on landing. That flight cost the lives of 37 people. And one that I always have to point out is April 4 1977 Southern Airways Flight 242. This crew was using their on board radar and misunderstood what they were seeing. They ended flying into the worst part of a thunderstorm, resulting in loss of all engines and was forced to crash land near New Hope Georgia. 63 persons on the flight plus 9 on the ground were killed. Lastly, June 1 1999 American Airlines Flight 1420 in Little Rock Arkansas. So many things went wrong. According to the CVR the fight crew didn't understand what they were flying into until it was too late. They failed to arm the spoilers. They were trying to shoot the bowling alley when in fact the alley had closed in on them. They were victims of schedule. 11 people lost their lives that night.
My point is, in the real world, thunderstorms are unpredictable and deadly. No one knows what they are going to do. Airport and aircraft doppler isn't always accurate and conditions change often. A lot of pilots become lax in thier approach to flying in thunderstorms, especially in a region where they are common. I understand the pressures of flying under schedules and making the "airline" happy. And this, as with most weather related flying, doesn't have a text book answer in the real world. Pilots should never fly into any weather system, especially a thunderstorm, and conduct it as no big deal. Too much is at stake. As I have stated before, I am not trying to get preachy, but this is what keeps me employed. I want you to force me out of a job investigating crashes. I really do.
As far as a text book answer, the 20 mile rule wins. But that is text book not actual flight. That also doesn't mean to fly willy nilly either. You should keep your distance when possible. Use your judgement. The question is one of those where they are trying to see if you know the text book rule and see what your reaction to this question is.
In closing, I want to say thank you to all the pilots who have flown me around the states and even the world. There have been some hairy times I know we would have been in trouble if the pilots were not on their game. I respect all of you and seriously stand in awe at the incidents you avoid due only to your skill. Just keep your mind on the weather and never become complacent. Keep our skys safe.
Fly high, fly safe, and respect to all pilots. Thank you for a tough job. :rawk:
