Thoughts on a start up...

KraFT

New Member
Hello all... I have a friend who's interested in starting an airline. Micro jets to be more specific.

I realize a lot of talent is required to be successful and maybe 1 out of 20 succeed, but everyone starts somewhere...from Fred Smith of FedEx, to Richard Branson.

I've been researching various fractional business models i.e. NetJets, which appear successful. I'm eager to see If operating costs will be significantly lower with micro jets, as compared to larger business jets. I think there are possibilities.

On the flip side, It's unfortunate Day Jets and Eclipse are having difficulty. The grass doesn't look so green. But that's never stopped anyone before...

Any reasonable thoughts are welcome with objectivity in mind. Thanks.
 

Number1atNumber2

Tries to keep it fun.
Starting an airline NOW?!? I'd say that's not a good idea. A lot of smaller charter outfits are not doing all that well. Fuel costs may be lower right now, but I don't think anyone expects things to stay that way. I'd say hold off on this kind of idea for a few years. If you are planning on VLJs as your fleet, we've seen Eclipse pretty much go under, and I don't know how the other VLJs are doing so far. Most of the air taxi concepts out there are not doing all that well.
 

scramjet

Well-Known Member
Now is NOT the time to be going into the aviation transport business. That being said, finding a niche, as others have said, is the key if you do. There is a (as far as I know) good performing company in California taking tourists on sight seeing ventures, dinner cruises, etc in the Zeppelin Company's new Zeppelin NT airship. They've found a niche and are doing pretty well in it. Niches are the key to making money in this tremendously unstable industry.
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
Props are economical but pax don't like flying on them. That's why the RJ became popular.

Microjets were already used in the form of an airline. Dayjet. It went out of business a month or two ago.
 

shinysideup

New Member
Hello all... I have a friend who's interested in starting an airline. Micro jets to be more specific.

I realize a lot of talent is required to be successful and maybe 1 out of 20 succeed, but everyone starts somewhere...from Fred Smith of FedEx, to Richard Branson.

I've been researching various fractional business models i.e. NetJets, which appear successful. I'm eager to see If operating costs will be significantly lower with micro jets, as compared to larger business jets. I think there are possibilities.

On the flip side, It's unfortunate Day Jets and Eclipse are having difficulty. The grass doesn't look so green. But that's never stopped anyone before...

Any reasonable thoughts are welcome with objectivity in mind. Thanks.
My thoughts as I read this. "a friend"- better be rich as H3ll and willing to loose lots of money. Micro Jets - doesn't make sense. An aircraft of that size needs a prop because the turbine is not efficient in the smaller package.

A lot of talent is required. Read some of Richard Bransons quotes, one comes to mind about quickest way to become a millionaire. Get a several billion dollars, start an airline, and you will become a millionaire.

Fractional Business models - Read Warren Buffets comments on NetJets "success." You must build a fractional business to a certain size (big) before you can make it profitable. You need the economics of scale to make it function in the black. Operating costs for micro jets are lower then larger jet. But they do not have the ability to do what a larger jet can. If there was a direct trade off, people would be selling off Lear jets, gulfstreems etc. to use the more "cost effective" VLJ. It doesn't work like that, you pax want to have some room onboard an aircraft. If you compared a micro jet with an aircraft of similar size with a prop, you will see the operating costs of the jet will be 2-3 times the price of a similarly capable prop. There are possibilities to loose money all over a VLJ.

Those economics have stopped people in the past, most notably Dayjet and eclipse.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
I dunno, this is a site made up of pilots. We just fly the things and bitch a lot.

I wouldn't necessarily say this is the worst time to start an airline. Like catching a wave, you don't jump on after it breaks. You jump on as it builds and ride it in.

My point being, who the hell knows :)
 

frog_flyer

FredFlyer
Even if you had the best business model EVVVARRR, it'd be near impossible to obtain financing. If you were able to, you'd get raped by your interest rate.
 

CaptBill

Well-Known Member
For reasons unknown, there never seems to be a shortage of individuals willing to dump tons of money into new airline ventures. Perhaps they think "their unique idea" is the ticket that will guarantee success. They almost all fail and the cycle just repeats itself over and over. The airline business is perhaps the biggest money losing proposition ever to investors. I can't think of another industry that will almost guarantee failure and losses. Tell your friend to invest in the auto industry or high risk mortgages - He will likely make more money there.
 

Stratopilot

Well-Known Member
As they say, the best way to make a million bucks in aviation is to start out with two million bucks!


I have the same 'If I won the Lottery" dream myself. I would have used the Cirrus Jet and served LAX and SFO, as well as a charter element.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Hello all... I have a friend who's interested in starting an airline. Micro jets to be more specific.

I realize a lot of talent is required to be successful and maybe 1 out of 20 succeed, but everyone starts somewhere...from Fred Smith of FedEx, to Richard Branson.

I've been researching various fractional business models i.e. NetJets, which appear successful. I'm eager to see If operating costs will be significantly lower with micro jets, as compared to larger business jets. I think there are possibilities.

On the flip side, It's unfortunate Day Jets and Eclipse are having difficulty. The grass doesn't look so green. But that's never stopped anyone before...

Any reasonable thoughts are welcome with objectivity in mind. Thanks.
Come up to alaska, the insurance is way higher, but your chances of success are pretty good compared to the states. There's a ridiculous amount of untapped markets, but don't count on being able to fly high powered expensive turbine stuff and make a mint, you have to go old school up here.
 

bidderswede

New Member
Hello all... I have a friend who's interested in starting an airline. Micro jets to be more specific.

I realize a lot of talent is required to be successful and maybe 1 out of 20 succeed, but everyone starts somewhere...from Fred Smith of FedEx, to Richard Branson.

I've been researching various fractional business models i.e. NetJets, which appear successful. I'm eager to see If operating costs will be significantly lower with micro jets, as compared to larger business jets. I think there are possibilities.

On the flip side, It's unfortunate Day Jets and Eclipse are having difficulty. The grass doesn't look so green. But that's never stopped anyone before...

Any reasonable thoughts are welcome with objectivity in mind. Thanks.

First of all, wait until Obama gets the seat.

Second, have a long term business plan in mind, with alot of outs.

Third, Make sure he puts ME as the CP,and he'll be fine.:hiya:
 
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