This will be an interesting investigation...

HeyEng said:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012...mid-air-plane-collision-over-fauquier-county/

This isn't making news quite yet, but just heard word from a pretty good source that the collision involved a senior medical officer for the FAA piloting one plane and an NTSB investigator piloting the other one. And to add a slight twist to it all is that the NTSB is going to ask the Canadians to investigate this.
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Would make sense to have an outside source come in to investigate the accident. Someone from both government entities that would normally be investigating this are involved and could create a bias.
 
I was referring more to our federal agencies inability to conduct their own investigations for fear of being biased, and having to have the CAA come down and do it, probably paying them as well. RIP to the guys that died, Hopefully the 70yo will be alright.
 
First, the amount they pay the Canadians to do it would probably be the same amount spent if they have used their own resources. Secondly, the FAA and NTSB have not been sending each other Christmas Cards over the last few years so it makes sense to do it this way to prevent any look of bias. Thirdly, as the roles of those in the accident have not been released yet, it might not be a bad idea to have a third party take a look of it.
 
Third part investigations happen all the time, for all sorts of accidents and incidents in many different fields.
 
You find it often in law enforcement; where for example, a county Sheriff's dept will investigate a high profile incident involving a city/local-level police agency.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
That I didn't know when it came to things that were "domestic" in nature.
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Pretty much automatic here, city police have a vehicle accident, shooting, whatever, it automatically gets handed over to Sheriff, State Troopers or sometimes the neighboring city PD. Mostly automatic, no discussion. I think it is a good thing, even if it does cost more, as the price of the potential downside, even if it is just a misplaced lack of public trust is much higher.

Sad deal here, I am sure everyone involved were experienced and detail oriented, "there but for the grace of...." are my exact sentiments, hopefully this investigation yields something worthwhile.
 
MikeD said:
You find it often in law enforcement; where for example, a county Sheriff's dept will investigate a high profile incident involving a city/local-level police agency.
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Oh well I know that, that makes sense. When you do that any money spent stays state side, or in those cases with in the same county or state. But this is going to a foreign country to ask them to do an investigation. That is why I made the comment.


Seggy said:
First, the amount they pay the Canadians to do it would probably be the same amount spent if they have used their own resources. Secondly, the FAA and NTSB have not been sending each other Christmas Cards over the last few years so it makes sense to do it this way to prevent any look of bias. Thirdly, as the roles of those in the accident have not been released yet, it might not be a bad idea to have a third party take a look of it.
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The FAA and NTSB have never had a good relationship, even back to TWA 800. To the amount we would pay the Canadians, that's more money we are sending outside of our country, why not let another organization here in the states oversee an investigation, then the money would stay here.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
Oh well I know that, that makes sense. When you do that any money spent stays state side, or in those cases with in the same county or state. But this is going to a foreign country to ask them to do an investigation. That is why I made the comment.
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It's the same thing, concept-wise, as we don't have another organization at the level of those two who could take the investigation, unless one wants to go to the DoD; but investigation of civil accidents doesn't fall under the purview of the military. So next closest would be Canadian TSB, who actually have a good relationship and excellent investigative resources, save for a couple of hiccups a few decades ago.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
To the amount we would pay the Canadians, that's more money we are sending outside of our country, why not let another organization here in the states oversee an investigation, then the money would stay here.
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Because the goal is to have an unbiased investigation of the accident, not to be a jobs program.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
Oh well I know that, that makes sense. When you do that any money spent stays state side, or in those cases with in the same county or state. But this is going to a foreign country to ask them to do an investigation. That is why I made the comment.





The FAA and NTSB have never had a good relationship, even back to TWA 800. To the amount we would pay the Canadians, that's more money we are sending outside of our country, why not let another organization here in the states oversee an investigation, then the money would stay here.
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True, I guess I have a lot of respect for the Canadian TSB, and I like the idea of having a completely open and transparent investigation, with no chance of bias or for that matter the investigation being derailed or being less valuable due to turf battles or a desire to protect the victims reputation or legacy. It is worth the cost, and if the mishap had occurred in a Canadian owned or registered aircraft, or if one was, say an Otter or something, the Canadians would be involved anyway. I know, moot point but I still think it is worth it.
 
MikeD said:
It's the same thing, concept-wise, as we don't have another organization at the level of those two who could take the investigation, unless one wants to go to the DoD; but investigation of civil accidents doesn't fall under the purview of the military. So next closest would be Canadian TSB, who actually have a good relationship and excellent investigative resources, save for a couple of hiccups a few decades ago.
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That makes since, I figured that either the DOD could do it or a police organization could do it, whether it be the USMS or the FBI, even if it was just acting as an oversight for the NTSB.

BeRich said:
Because the goal is to have an unbiased investigation of the accident, not to be a jobs program.
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I could careless about jobs. Its more about more of our money and in this case tax dollars going across our borders.
 
Cazadores said:
True, I guess I have a lot of respect for the Canadian TSB, and I like the idea of having a completely open and transparent investigation, with no chance of bias or for that matter the investigation being derailed or being less valuable due to turf battles or a desire to protect the victims reputation or legacy.
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The TSB has definitely come a long way since their inception in 1990, coming from a rough past before that.
 
MikeD said:
The TSB has definitely come a long way since their inception in 1990, coming from a rough past before that.
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I don't know the details, my understanding is the Gander DC-8 investigation pretty much served to eviscerate the Canadian accident investigation communities credibility. I don't know if there was anything else in its history before this.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
That makes since, I figured that either the DOD could do it or a police organization could do it, whether it be the USMS or the FBI, even if it was just acting as an oversight for the NTSB.


I could careless about jobs. Its more about more of our money and in this case tax dollars going across our borders.
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You are saying have the FBI do an airplane crash investigation?
 
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