This just in, Good NEWS!!
- Thread starter sherpa
- Start date
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
I've been reading news releases all day, so I forget where I saw it, but I swear somewhere somebody reported that the FAA issued a 2 year implementation plan to allow airlines a chance to negotiate out the issues with their unions.
In other words, they've passed the buck. Rather than implement new rules and force compliance, they've left us holding the bag. If we're not compliant, the changes required will come at a price with some other sort of contract issue.
The upshot of this is that pilot groups with stricter rules, especially the international set, etc, will still have contractual protection. The company will have to make a demonstrated case to reduce those crew compliments. Those suffering under previous draconian regulations, i.e., the regional set, will have this to prop up their bottom ranks.
This is a classic example of 'a rising tide lifts all boats'. If the mainline unions can hold the line, the bolster to the regional set will give them a much needed boost. This is far from perfect, but it's a start.
The cargo kids got screwed- again. This sort of 'special treatment' for the freight community is hardly new. We really need to keep pressure on here where we can.
In other words, they've passed the buck. Rather than implement new rules and force compliance, they've left us holding the bag. If we're not compliant, the changes required will come at a price with some other sort of contract issue.
The upshot of this is that pilot groups with stricter rules, especially the international set, etc, will still have contractual protection. The company will have to make a demonstrated case to reduce those crew compliments. Those suffering under previous draconian regulations, i.e., the regional set, will have this to prop up their bottom ranks.
This is a classic example of 'a rising tide lifts all boats'. If the mainline unions can hold the line, the bolster to the regional set will give them a much needed boost. This is far from perfect, but it's a start.
The cargo kids got screwed- again. This sort of 'special treatment' for the freight community is hardly new. We really need to keep pressure on here where we can.
nmineau
Well-Known Member
What exactly is the 2 years? Is it like 2 years from today they wake up and we all of a sudden need more sleep to be safe? or do they work this in with certain stuff on different dates over 2 years?
That's largely the part that pisses me off.
The universal answer is "don't worry, you have a contract!" however what about the airlines that aren't organized?
So the minimum threshold of safety has been reduced and our only solace is that our contract reflects a buffer of safety from the previous rules. So from the ATA perspective, they got additional productivity to reduce costs — fewer pilots can fly more, but they'll need a couple extra bodies to adjust to the reserve rules.
On the union side, it's a big advertisement for "Ah! See how crappy things can be if you weren't covered under a collective bargaining agreement? Join today!"
And to the freight and supplemental pilots, well, again, in the eyes of the FAA, they don't count.
Next time a plane full of fatigued pilots impacts a house, I'm sure the survivors in the neighborhood aren't going to find any solace that "Whew! Thank goodness they weren't carrying passengers under a part-121 scheduled operation else it'd be a tragedy".
Huge step backwards.
The universal answer is "don't worry, you have a contract!" however what about the airlines that aren't organized?
So the minimum threshold of safety has been reduced and our only solace is that our contract reflects a buffer of safety from the previous rules. So from the ATA perspective, they got additional productivity to reduce costs — fewer pilots can fly more, but they'll need a couple extra bodies to adjust to the reserve rules.
On the union side, it's a big advertisement for "Ah! See how crappy things can be if you weren't covered under a collective bargaining agreement? Join today!"
And to the freight and supplemental pilots, well, again, in the eyes of the FAA, they don't count.
Next time a plane full of fatigued pilots impacts a house, I'm sure the survivors in the neighborhood aren't going to find any solace that "Whew! Thank goodness they weren't carrying passengers under a part-121 scheduled operation else it'd be a tragedy".
Huge step backwards.
Take that anger and use it in our upcoming takeover of ALPA
You guys have fun.
I'm just dumbfounded how people find this to be an improvement?
"Eat more buffalo wings, they're good for the heart!" Uhh....
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Not quite. It's two years from the date of publishing in the Federal Registrar, which will be another week or so.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm dumbfounded that you don't see it. Minimum 10 hours rest? A requirement for 8 hours sleep opportunity behind the door? Maximum 13 hour duty day, down to 9 hours, depending on report time? Huge improvements for pilots on reserve?
What are you not seeing here?
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The international rules were gutted in order to get that.
Todd you've got to remember that I've flown both domestic AND international so I've got first-hand knowledge of the differences in operations. LAX to BOS is an entirely different animal than BOS to CDG.
Get out there, do the work and then tell me what you think about it. Expand your aperture.
do you have a way of backing this? Even the NBC nightly news said 2 years till we see it?? I just want something hard showing that it takes effect any sooner than 2 years from now.
89-LX
Well-Known Member
Care to explain Doug for the new people into this field that are flying at a regional? I don't see much of a change for me for the operations I have been doing at my regional, but I can see it for others. I'm usually the guy doing 2-3 hours legs in a regional, only 1-3 times a day at max.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
We have plenty of experts working on this who have done plenty of international flying, Doug. They disagree with your analysis and believe that the international rules are an improvement. I won't comment on specifics, since as you point out, this isn't my area of expertise, but I would encourage you to talk to the people who do specialize in this area at DALPA
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You misunderstand. I'm not saying that it will happen sooner than two years, I'm saying that it will be just a tiny bit longer than that. It hasn't been officially published in the Federal Registrar yet, so the 2 year clock hasn't started running. It will be another week or so before the clock even starts ticking.
So my rep who flies international that admitted that it was a crap giveaway to the ATA was full of it? You two boys fight that one out, I'll go with my experience.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Sounds good. Keep up the negativity!
When a coal miner says, "Careful, you'll get black lung" to the new guy in the mine, he has a choice.
Learn from his perspective or say, "Well, the company memo said not to worry about it".
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I know you'd like to make it that simple, Doug, but of course, it's not. Because it's not your analysis against mine, as you'd like to paint it. It's your anecdotal analysis against a science-based analysis of safety experts, doctors, and a slew of international pilot volunteers involved in working on this project.