This industry sucks (rant)

jhugz said:
I’ve been where you’ve been. I got the thanks but no thanks from my number 1 choice (UPS) when I decided to leave Kalitta. I was devastated. I sulked for a couple of days allowing myself to feel bad, then I got back on the horse to prep some more. A couple months later I had a CJO with Delta and United.

I still think about that interview with UPS and what I did wrong. Out of the three I felt as if it was my best one so again I was very surprised when I didn’t get it. You can let this failure define your aviation career or you can use it as motivation to propel it.

The best thing that happened to me was my number one choice to say no. I wanted to prove to them and myself that they made a major mistake. I firmly believe I’m at an airline that fits my personality and I’m happy here. I’m only here because of my previous interview failure.
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If I had gotten hired by American when I interviewed, I would have taken it, but thought I wanted United because I thought I couldn’t live without the SF Bay Area but Delta called first.

I have seen things because of the specific people that took me under their metaphorical wings that I couldn’t have experienced anywhere else. But it wasn’t the airline, it was the people. Those people can be anywhere, I just happened to find mine at an airline that seemed the most unlikely.

I tried to let her know that she shouldn’t let this interview define her, spend the evening mourning, but the next day talking to people (not career consultants) about opportunities. I also offered to write down all she could about the experience, what she was asked, how she responded while it was still fresh and to reach out to “a certain someone” that could give first-hand feedback with reference to their interview because I really have no idea what they ask or what they’re specifically looking for. But even that has to be done quickly because the more time that passes the murkier the memory.

It’s not the end of the world. And, quite frankly, looking at the business world here, there really isn’t anywhere to run unless you’re a Private Equity Bro, I just hope the cash and prizes hold out for a few more years.
 
I hope you don't have to resort to it, but if airport ops/management ever becomes an interest, definitely let me know and I'll do whatever I can to help get you connected.

I know of one airport director contact of mine who is a transgender woman, and I'm sure she would be happy to help you as well.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
You know you can…get a degree, right?
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It is a tough market right now. I haven't been able to get an interview, in either tech or aviation, in close to a year of trying. It is frustrating when there is a lead, and the person doing the hiring is then gone themselves a week later. There's been a lot of that (mostly in the tech world, but flying gigs too). At least instructing, you can do freelance, enough that you are at least flying, though freelance instructing is only viable for as long as you have the savings to support it.

At the same time, I'm aware that there are several hundred applications for every role. And in the tech world, maybe 20% of those reqs are actual jobs, the rest are CV farming for various purposes.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
It is a tough market right now. I haven't been able to get an interview, in either tech or aviation, in close to a year of trying. It is frustrating when there is a lead, and the person doing the hiring is then gone themselves a week later. There's been a lot of that (mostly in the tech world, but flying gigs too). At least instructing, you can do freelance, enough that you are at least flying, though freelance instructing is only viable for as long as you have the savings to support it.

At the same time, I'm aware that there are several hundred applications for every role. And in the tech world, maybe 20% of those reqs are actual jobs, the rest are CV farming for various purposes.
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The days of not needing a degree to touch a major are probably over and really only lasted at most between late 2021-mid 2023. I say this as someone who didn’t get mine until I was in my 30s… get the damn degree. I wonder how many years more seniority I might have had I quit messing around and gotten it years sooner.
 
JordanD said:
The days of not needing a degree to touch a major are probably over and really only lasted at most between late 2021-mid 2023. I say this as someone who didn’t get mine until I was in my 30s… get the damn degree. I wonder how many years more seniority I might have had I quit messing around and gotten it years sooner.
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I have a degree. I'm probably getting a masters while I wait for the job market to improve.
 
🦈💜 said:
Honestly, thank you. I don't want to leave the industry again, but I can't continue on like this.
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At some point, you just have to do what makes you happy, and Jr CA at Skywest isn't it. I don't have any advice to offer, but you sound miserable and have been miserable for a while. The fact that you're still getting interviews is a good sign, imo.
 
2+ years of short call reserve can do that. How far away from line? How many places have you interviewed?

There’s more to life than aviation.
 
🦈💜 said:
Not really. Actually, most of the people doing prep just tried to help me reformat my answers so that I could hit all of the stupid points (empathy, humility, leadership, etc) on the grading rubric in a "STAR" format, and to recognize that the questions asked might be more broad than the question itself implied.
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From the perspective of someone who's spent a good amount of time on the other side, asking the TMAAT STAR questions, it is sometimes just the luck of the draw. Often, I would find out just before an interview I am to assess these 2 traits, and choose from these 5 questions. Sometimes the traits had something to do with the questions, sometimes they didn't, at all. So, some of the blame certainly rested on me for not steering the responses more closely towards the behavior that I needed to document. And being human, how late in the day it was. And I needed notes to support this in a debrief, which were sometimes given more consideration than others.

In a small sample size, of one or two interviews, it can just be bad luck. You could answer the same questions the same way in the interviews I was doing, and have a different result the next day depending on a bunch of reasons you couldn't control or even know. That said, if I could make the case that "This is the strongest candidate I have interviewed this year, because of X, Y, and Z" -- I would make that case. It was at least was considered, from what I could tell, and almost always resulted in "keep them on the list for next time."
 
JordanD said:
The days of not needing a degree to touch a major are probably over and really only lasted at most between late 2021-mid 2023. I say this as someone who didn’t get mine until I was in my 30s… get the damn degree. I wonder how many years more seniority I might have had I quit messing around and gotten it years sooner.
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Dude, same. I wish I could go back in time and Batman-slap my younger self and say COOPERATE AND GRADUATE!

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Yes, it can seem like an arbitrary hoop to jump through. Yes, there are a lot of people who are intelligent independent of whether or not they went to college. But you’re not going to change the minds of the gate-keepers, who are required to score you at the bottom of the list if you don’t have one. Just total self-defeating behavior.

🦈 ❤️, you’re good at computer science, literature and all sorts of crap. Enroll in an online degree program in a subject you enjoy/are good at, check the box, and move up in your career. Or don’t and continue to be miserable. *shrug* But your attempt at martyrdom to change the injustice of the system is going to be unsuccessful, and will only harm yourself in the long term.
 
I’m sorry you are having such trouble moving on from the regionals. I understand how frustrating it is.

I’ve only personally known one person to get hired at a legacy without a degree. His “commensurate experience” was as an APD at the regional we worked at. I don’t even think being an LCP is considered good enough to get hired without a degree in the current environment.

I will admit that I currently fly for a legacy carrier. I managed to get hired with a DUI in my past. I always disclosed it on my applications. I applied to a LCC years ago. My first interview, they never asked me about it and I didn’t bring it up. I thought it was odd that I wasn’t asked about the obvious elephant in my room. But I was somewhat relieved that I didn’t have to talk about it. Well, I was told to reapply in six months. Fast forward six months, I was back interviewing for the same LCC. Once again, I wasn’t asked about my DUI. At the end of the interview when they asked me if I had anything else, I brought up my DUI and the massive life lessons I took from it. Guess what? I got a CJO. Later, when interviewing for my legacy carrier, same thing; they didn’t ask about it. I spoke up and talked about it. Again, I was given a CJO.

All that to say, maybe you have something that you don’t bring up in interviews because they aren’t asking you about it. It may be a good idea to be more forthright and bring it up on your own.

(Please don’t take this as me assuming anything about you or your past, just trying to help offer my perspective.)

Again, best of luck and please reach out if there is anything I can do to help. (I am but a cog in the 17,000 spoke wheel, but I will absolutely do what I can)
 
I agree that getting a degree is an important step. But if they’re getting interviews, shouldn’t it be their job to lose? This really could only be those who are in the hiring department but once they’ve gotten there I can’t see a degree keeping them from getting a job. If they werent getting calls at all for interviews, then maybe I would be more inclined to agree. Getting a degree while working 100 hours is not an easy, or quick, thing to accomplish at a reputable university.
 
Kingairer said:
I agree that getting a degree is an important step. But if they’re getting interviews, shouldn’t it be their job to lose? This really could only be those who are in the hiring department but once they’ve gotten there I can’t see a degree keeping them from getting a job. If they werent getting calls at all for interviews, then maybe I would be more inclined to agree. Getting a degree while working 100 hours is not an easy, or quick, thing to accomplish at a reputable university.
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Define reputable. Regionally accredited is accredited. I’m sure someone in recruiting could shine light on the other stuff, but I’m sure just getting your number pulled isn’t the end all be all and there’s still any number of factors that could push a “maybe” into a “yes”, especially out of a stack of people who’ve already interviewed.
 
inigo88 said:
Dude, same. I wish I could go back in time and Batman-slap my younger self and say COOPERATE AND GRADUATE!

...

🦈 ❤️, you’re good at computer science, literature and all sorts of crap. Enroll in an online degree program in a subject you enjoy/are good at, check the box, and move up in your career. Or don’t and continue to be miserable. *shrug* But your attempt at martyrdom to change the injustice of the system is going to be unsuccessful, and will only harm yourself in the long term.
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Not directed at anyone in particular, but for anyone that already has strong tech skills -

WGU, OSU, FSU, ASU and SNHU all have fairly well known online-only Computer Science degree programs. These can be finished quickly and cheaply. WGU and FSU (probably others as well) are ABET-accredited (doesn't really matter for a pilot), all are regionally accredited. At the end of the day, a regionally accredited degree is checkbox. Just like having a CFI-I, or an ATP, or any other credential someone might want to see. Probably easier to have it than to not have it.
 
JordanD said:
Define reputable. Regionally accredited is accredited. I’m sure someone in recruiting could shine light on the other stuff, but I’m sure just getting your number pulled isn’t the end all be all and there’s still any number of factors that could push a “maybe” into a “yes”, especially out of a stack of people who’ve already interviewed.
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Regional accreditation is what you’re looking for instead of national accreditation.

If you’re truly starting from 0, 120 hours of school work while flying full time is not going to be a quick endeavor. 1 to 2 classes is all a mere mortal is going to be able to handle while trying to fly a full schedule. It’s all doable but not easy.
 
Kingairer said:
I agree that getting a degree is an important step. But if they’re getting interviews, shouldn’t it be their job to lose? This really could only be those who are in the hiring department but once they’ve gotten there I can’t see a degree keeping them from getting a job. If they werent getting calls at all for interviews, then maybe I would be more inclined to agree. Getting a degree while working 100 hours is not an easy, or quick, thing to accomplish at a reputable university.
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I have always had the mindset that if you are called for an interview the job is one's to lose. How and why one loses it....? Something for reflection I suppose.
 
Malko said:
I have always had the mindset that if you are called for an interview the job is one's to lose. How and why one loses it....? Something for reflection I suppose.
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This may very well be the case, and I may be looking at it too much from the lens of the corporate world. But for jobs with both basic qualifications and preferred qualifications listed, you may select candidates to interview from both camps, but ultimately if you show up with only the basic qualifications met you better be a REALLY impressive candidate. In my humble opinion though, not taking the initiative to go beyond meeting the bare minimum and getting the preferred qualifications (which may be more hours, volunteering etc, but definitely includes checking the degree box) may make the difference between being the top of the list vs the extra person they interviewed to round out the candidate pool. I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic, I’ve always thought OP sounds like an awesome person - but they’ve said it themselves that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Take one class a semester, do what you have to do, but start now because you aren’t getting any younger and it isn’t going to be easier later.
 
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