This can't be legal-Free Flight Time

It's okay. You just don't know better because you just showed up here five minutes ago to defend your sleazy business practices, while the rest of us have been here for a while and know each other in "the real world." This isn't your typical internet forum where people hide behind screen names and cling to anonymity. But I can definitely understand why you would want to.
 
Look, it's been explained to you why and how this is totally illegal. I'm inclined to be forgiving, because the FARs are a Byzantine maze, and people often don't understand them. You...er I mean "the guy" might be the nicest guy in the world, I have no idea. But this has 134.5 tattooed all over it. Do you want to talk about the Law, or be Innocence Abused because ATN is, eh, sometimes less than tactful?
 
Champcar said:
I received these e-mails this morning from the local flight school. This is not the first time these have been sent out and I am convinced this practice is not legal, flight time is considered compensation. Whats more surprising is there is a FSDO on the field and the owners are a previous Part 121 pilot and Chief Pilot for a 135 operations who should know better. I hate seeing PPL's being taken advantage of like this, unless the local FSDO has said it's fine. The fact they are charging customers and not paying the pilots is what really bothers me. I censored some of the e-mails just in case.


Good Morning,


We have free flying today for the first qualified response.

Your mission if you choose to accept it:

Fly N225** from *** to ABE - Allentown, PA - you need to be there by 4PM.

Pick up one passenger and bring him to *********, then return to ***.

Must be a private pilot or better and current and qualified in N225**.



Greetings,

And the winner is ******** - thank you very much -****. For those of you not familiar, one of the services we provide at the ********** Air Center is customer pick up and drop off. Customers bring in their aircraft to ******** for service and we return them back to their home base. Upon completion of the service we then go and collect them and bring them back to ******** to pick up their aircraft. Works well for the customer and we are happy to pass along some free flying to the folks at the ********** Air Center. The customer today is actually from Leesburg Virginia and he is picking up his V Tail Bonanza (Looks really nice by the way).
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I've heard of schools "giving away" a ferry flight to pick up a new aircraft for the line. I've heard of flight schools stranding a CFI and student overnight while they waited for another student to need a "cross country" to go rescue them from their broke-ass airplane. But this. This is just Too Legit to Quit!! I love this industry more and more. Every day in every way it gets better and better.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Anyone who's interested enough to ask can find out who ATN is. Which I respect him for (if not much else :D just kidding, guy). The same can be said of most of the people who post regularly here. You, on the other hand, don't seem to have introduced yourself...my name's Matt! And you are...
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"Hi. My name is Matt, and I'm a pilot." FTFY. ;)
 
Boris Badenov said:
Anyone who's interested enough to ask can find out who ATN is. Which I respect him for (if not much else :D just kidding, guy). The same can be said of most of the people who post regularly here. You, on the other hand, don't seem to have introduced yourself...my name's Matt! And you are...
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/griffinmckinney

There are lots of mes, but they're all additive. ^.^ None exists to hide any of the others.

-Fox
 
hcaeborev said:
I would say the same thing that would happen if it was being rented.

How about this.....

I own a 172. My friend is a private pilot. My GF needs to get from PYM to MVY for a wedding and doesn't like boats. I can't do the flight because I'm working. If I call my friend and ask him to shoot my GF over to MVY in my plane am I a scumbag? Is this illegal according to "flight time as compensation"? What happens if he dings it up or busts BOS class B?

I don't see my scenario as being all that much different from the original. Again, if there is a fee involved for the customer to be brought home then I most certainly have beef.
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The two words that define and explain any ambiguity are "girlfriend" and "customer". Now, especially in places like California, I understand how one can often feel like a customer of one's girlfriend. But that confusion aside, the words carry black letter clarity.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Waitaminit.

First, anything I say on this forum is far from a legal opinion. Legal opinions require direct contact and a knowledge of all of the facts and nuances. Second, violation of rules is violation of rules, not necessarily a sign of moral reprehensibility. In the scholarly study of law, there is a distinction between things that are unlawful because the are are morally bad and things that are illegal just because a governing body thinks they shoul not be allowed. Compare a murderer with someone who exceeds the speed limit by 5 mph. Both are doing something illegal. Hopefully we can agree that only one is a bad person.

scumbag? For giving renter private pilots the opportunity to fly for free on a completely voluntary basis?
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However, there is also an area of legal study that covers moral hazard. It's been shown definitively that rigorous enforcement of "little crimes" reduces the frequency of "big crimes".
Obviously, like you said, one's gotta know all the facts... But in this case (as stated) "scumbag" vs "thug" seem to denote the delta you're after pretty well.
 
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