Things CFIs are Sick of saying, doing, or hearing

flyguy said:
The other spoke about 5 words of English when he got here and took it upon himself to improve. . . . Within about 2 months, his English had improved about 400%.
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So he speaks 20 words now? :)
 
mtsu_av8er said:
I personally hate it when people refer to the departure leg as the upwind leg . . . . . AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
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Ok, a quote from the AIN that I point out to most of those I fly with is below. There are also a number of good ACs and other AIM references. Actually, more often, I get to share this one with other instructors.

4-3-2 c
"6. Departure leg. The flight path which begins after takeoff and continues straight ahead along the extended runway centerline. The departure climb continues until reaching a point at least 1/2 mile beyond the departure end of the runway and within 300 feet of the traffic pattern altitude."
 
What is the big deal about calling it the upwind leg???? I mean I know what is in the AIM, and I know what the difference is between the departure leg and the upwind leg, but there is no denying that it is common phraseology to call it the upwind leg. May not be exactly proper phraseology, but it is very common. So much so that I don't recall ever flying with anyone, nor even hearing anyone on the radio call it anything other than the upwind leg. Maybe its the AIM that needs to change. Because lets say someone is actually on the real upwind leg and announce themselves as such. Most people will look for them on the departure leg. If someone announces they are on the departure leg, I'd guess thre would be a few pilots who might not understand that at all. (Especially students who's English is marginal)

Be honest. How many of you use the exact recommended phraseology all the time? Does everybody pronounce it "tree", "fife", "kay-beck" etc? I can understand the annoyance, but is this really something worth getting one's panties all twisted up over?
 
flyguy said:
...I don't recall ever flying with anyone, nor even hearing anyone on the radio call it anything other than the upwind leg. Maybe its the AIM that needs to change. Because lets say someone is actually on the real upwind leg and announce themselves as such. Most people will look for them on the departure leg. If someone announces they are on the departure leg, I'd guess thre would be a few pilots who might not understand that at all. (Especially students who's English is marginal) ....
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"Wherever traffic... N1234A... departing... rwy 14... Wherever..."

[moments later, within 300' of TPA]

"Wherever traffic... N34A... one thousand, three hundred on the departure... right turnout to the west... Wherever..."

----------------------

"Wherever traffic... N34A... one mile final... rwy 14... three down and locked... Wherever..."

[moments later, on a balked landing]

"Wherever traffic... N34A's a go-around... rwy 14... Wherever..."

[moments later]

"Wherever traffic... N34... midfield... upwind... rwy 14... Wherever..."

----------------------

For me, it's not about panties; it's about helping to ensure others out there know where I am and what I'm doing. If a pilot doesn't know the difference between departure and upwind, somebody failed him during his training. And if his problem is speaking/understanding English, I have no sympathy whatsoever---that is a requirement for the gig.
 
I was NEVER taught to say "upwind leg"

Downwind, base and final are fine.

If you are leaving the airport then yes, although I was taught to say "departing the pattern"
 
Since we're talking about things that bug people on the radio, how about "taking the active." My normal response to people that say it is, "So where are you goign to take it?" I was always taught to say, "Taxing into position runway X," and I've heard ATC use the same phraseology. I've never had a tower tell me, "Take the active runway 16 and hold."
 
John Herreshoff said:
Since we're talking about things that bug people on the radio, how about "taking the active." ....
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One I used to be guilty of, until I flew with the CP for a stage check......"Flying Cloud Tower, Cessna 5088Q, ready to go, 28R"

He gave me a little verbal lashing. Where are you going? What are you doing? After that......


"Flying Cloud Tower, Cessna 5088Q, ready for takeoff, 28R"
 
flyguy said:
What is the big deal about calling it the upwind leg????
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The same thing that is wrong with landing on a Taxiway, taxiing at 40 knots, and ignoring radio calls. It's not the right way to do it.

I mean I know what is in the AIM, and I know what the difference is between the departure leg and the upwind leg, but there is no denying that it is common phraseology to call it the upwind leg.
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If 100 people do the wrong thing, it's still the wrong thing.

May not be exactly proper phraseology . . .
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Why is there a need to say more, then?

. . . it is very common. So much so that I don't recall ever flying with anyone, nor even hearing anyone on the radio call it anything other than the upwind leg.
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Incompetence is pretty common!


Maybe its the AIM that needs to change. Because lets say someone is actually on the real upwind leg and announce themselves as such. Most people will look for them on the departure leg. If someone announces they are on the departure leg, I'd guess thre would be a few pilots who might not understand that at all. (Especially students who's English is marginal)
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So, the AIM should change to suit the needs of the incompetent pilots at your home field? Go learn to fly the correct way, learn how to use a radio the correct way, then come back and finish this conversation. I can't even believe that you'd say something so stupid. Really.

Does everybody pronounce it "tree", "fife", "kay-beck" etc?
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You know, some of us do . . .
 
Josh said:
4-3-2 c
"6. Departure leg. The flight path which begins after takeoff and continues straight ahead along the extended runway centerline. The departure climb continues until reaching a point at least 1/2 mile beyond the departure end of the runway and within 300 feet of the traffic pattern altitude."
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So what's your answer for this ^^^ post then, Lloyd?
 
mtsu_av8er said:
I'm confused as to what the post is asking . . .
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Well I think the o.p. was saying that the AIM has clearly defined "Departure leg" so if you meet those qualifications, why not call it as such?
 
Chris_Ford said:
Well I think the o.p. was saying that the AIM has clearly defined "Departure leg" so if you meet those qualifications, why not call it as such?
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What are you talking about? Chris, I never said that it should be called anything else.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
What are you talking about? Chris, I never said that it should be called anything else.
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um well, let's just say I'm really really drunk, because that will explain why I can't effing read. My bad :)
 
Chris_Ford said:
um well, let's just say I'm really really drunk, because that will explain why I can't effing read. My bad :)
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That's how you ended up on my ignore list in the first place.:mad:
 
Look I'm not trying to say that upwind is right and departure is wrong. I know the difference. Its just that sooooooo many more people say upwind than departure, I think its safe to say that it is accepted as proper phraseology. And its not just a few pilots at my home field. Its every pilot at every field I've ever been to. So maybe only those of us in the souwthwest have bad radio skills, but everyone understands each other just fine.

I think a certain amount of improper phraseology is acceptable. Because nobody, and I mean noblody uses proper phraseoloy 100% of the time. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Its not just the radio either. Its English in general. Having taugh many students who speak English as a foreign language, you would be astonished by how much slang and ideoms there are in everyday conversation. Yet all this slang has become accepted over time to the point that if we use proper English phraseology, its weird.

And once again, I'm not trying to argue that upwind is the correct term and departure is incorrect. I know that departure is correct. But I don't see this is something that should be causing ulcers. That's all.
 
Even though you've shown numerous times that you don't use it. But it's cool to pretend to ignore me too.

I love how you're never wrong Lloyd. You're just another know-it-all CFI in a sea of 'em. Hope you're proud of your wonderful knowledge. Too bad you can dish it out but not take it either... or take a joke.

:whatever:
 
Chris_Ford said:
Even though you've shown numerous times that you don't use it. But it's cool to pretend to ignore me too.

I love how you're never wrong Lloyd. You're just another know-it-all CFI in a sea of 'em. Hope you're proud of your wonderful knowledge. Too bad you can dish it out but not take it either... or take a joke.

:whatever:
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Time to get rid of your disclaimer I guess :)

-ColM
 
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