Things CFIs are Sick of saying, doing, or hearing

[SteveC]

Just to continue the "pattern radio calls" discussion a little bit, I like to make my calls at the "corners" of the pattern. Doing so gives a more precise location of where the other traffic should look to find me. It usually makes my aircraft more visible to others because I am, or soon will be, in a banked configuration which will be much more visible to someone at my same altitude. To show you what I mean, here are my typical calls:

(After an initial call 5 miles or so from the field, much farther out if I'm in something fast);

"Smithville traffic, Bugsmasher 123 entering midfield left downwind runway 9, Smithville".

"Smithville traffic, BS123 left downwind turning base, runway 9, Smithville".

"Smithville traffic, BS123 left base turning final, runway 9, Smithville".

If I'm flying something larger with a commensurately larger pattern I will often add a final call; "Smithville traffic, BS123 1/2 mile final (or short final) runway 9, Smithville".

 

[Ian_J]

Just to continue the "pattern radio calls" discussion a little bit, I like to make my calls at the "corners" of the pattern. Doing so gives a more precise location of where the other traffic should look to find me. It usually makes my aircraft more visible to others because I am, or soon will be, in a banked configuration which will be much more visible to someone at my same altitude. To show you what I mean, here are my typical calls:

(After an initial call 5 miles or so from the field, much farther out if I'm in something fast);

"Smithville traffic, Bugsmasher 123 entering midfield left downwind runway 9, Smithville".

"Smithville traffic, BS123 left downwind turning base, runway 9, Smithville".

"Smithville traffic, BS123 left base turning final, runway 9, Smithville".

If I'm flying something larger with a commensurately larger pattern I will often add a final call; "Smithville traffic, BS123 1/2 mile final (or short final) runway 9, Smithville".

I do the same thing.... call the corners.

 

[FlyingNole]

On another note; Out of almost being killed everyday, Ive started a "kill count" for my students... So at the end of the flight I give them the tally. This way they have a goal of NOT trying to kill us.

 

[SteveC]

Now there's some positive reinforcement.

 

[moxiepilot]

On another note; Out of almost being killed everyday, Ive started a "kill count" for my students... So at the end of the flight I give them the tally. This way they have a goal of NOT trying to kill us.

hmmm.

 

[Timbuff10]

I like the calling the corners too. If you just say you are downwind, that can mean a wide variety of things, and even more if you are flying a 747 pattern like a typical pre-solo pilot.

If you say, turning downwind, then everyone knows you are doing the xwind/downwind turn. Sometimes, depending on where people are in the pattern and how many, I will also make a "midfield downwind" call which can help that guy doing the proper entry on the 45.

The last thing a student pilot needs on short final is to have some random guy yelling at him for a making a call on the CTAF that is only more helpful.

Then there is Lloyd having problems with me using upwind over departure leg. That one, I will freely admit I don't know what the official name of it is. I do think the AIM refers to it as the departure leg though so I will change to that for Lloyd

 

[Timbuff10]

To get back on topic though, how about when people make their turn out of the (get ready for this Lloyd) "departure leg" before getting within 300' of TPA. No one seems to know about the reference in the AIM that says you shouldn't do this until getting within 300' of TPA. I see people all the time that make the turn out 300' in the air and with plenty of runway remaining just because tower wants to get a jet departed behind them.

The KeyLime PFTers almost threw a fit the other day when they were behind me in my 500 fpm Cessna.

I guess since it is in the AIM it isn't regulatory though, just good advice? Can the FAA take certificates away for violating 4-3-2?

 

[FlyingNole]

Now there's some positive reinforcement.

Its more of a joke than anything, and they know it, but it does get them on the ball

 

[mtsu_av8er]

To get back on topic though, how about when people make their turn out of the (get ready for this Lloyd) "departure leg" before getting within 300' of TPA. No one seems to know about the reference in the AIM that says you shouldn't do this until getting within 300' of TPA. I

Nicely done!

That drives me absolutely crazy. Ask any of my students, and they'll tell you that I'll pretty much bite their freaking heads off if they turn out before they're within 300' of the TPA. It's written in the AIM pretty clearly!

If you're at a controlled airport, and the tower directs you to start your turn, that's one thing. Otherwise, do it the right way!

 

[flygirl]

As far as I know there is only one final for a runway! However there are 2 base, downwind and crosswind legs, left and right.
Is there also a left and right departure leg?

 

[Ian_J]

Nicely done!

That drives me absolutely crazy. Ask any of my students, and they'll tell you that I'll pretty much bite their freaking heads off if they turn out before they're within 300' of the TPA. It's written in the AIM pretty clearly!

If you're at a controlled airport, and the tower directs you to start your turn, that's one thing. Otherwise, do it the right way!

Oh crap... you guys just made me realize that for the past few days I've been telling my students 400 ft within TPA. Don't know how 400 got stuck in my head, but damn. Mind fart. Gotta go fix that.

 

[desertdog71]

Is it 300' of TPA? Or 300' AGL? I have to go look this up, because I usually turn out out 300' AGL or beyond the runway end at controlled tower airports. Unless instructed otherwise of course.

I know my CFI is sick of hearing "You're the instructor"

He often askes me where I want to go today, and I usually don't care so I put it back on him. We do like to give eachother a hard time.

Another one he gets sick of hearing is. "Is it bumpy today?" or "How are the winds?"

That seems to be the most common question with student pilots.

 

[flyguy]

I guess since it is in the AIM it isn't regulatory though, just good advice? Can the FAA take certificates away for violating 4-3-2?

If you piss them off somehow they can take a certificate away for anything. They won't call it a violation of 4-3-2 though, they'll call it a violation of 91.13. Moral of the story, be as polite and accomidating as possilbe, and you'll probably get some slack even if you make genuine mistake (assuming nobody got hurt). Piss them off and you may need to find a new career.

 

[Timbuff10]

Yeah I think it would come into play when something goes wrong and they are looking for someone to blame. If you didn't follow the advised procedure that is clearly written then you get the blame.

For example, an engine failure just after departure. If you climbed up to within 300' of TPA before making your turn you will have more time to deal with the emergency than someone who made the turn earlier and wasn't able to gain as much altitude because he was trying to hurry and make his turn early which resulted in that much less lift he could generate while climbing out.

After all, the point of taking off is to try and get as much air between your butt and the ground as possible right? Why screw around with climb killing turns and stuff?

 

[BrettInLJ]

On the pre taxi check for "Lights-As req.":

Them: "Do I use. Landing light? Taxi light? Strobes?"
Me: "No, you only need the rotating beacon during the day, and we will get the landing light and strobes on before takeoff."
This is asked every flight with the same student even after a dozen flights. I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

Also, it seems that students have the hardest time getting the concept of positioning the a/c in the runup area into the wind with the nosewheel straight, yet putting it in a position to not hog the entire runup area and/or block the taxi way.

 

[FlyingNole]

On the pre taxi check for "Lights-As req.":

Them: "Do I use. Landing light? Taxi light? Strobes?"
Me: "No, you only need the rotating beacon during the day, and we will get the landing light and strobes on before takeoff."
This is asked every flight with the same student even after a dozen flights. I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

Also, it seems that students have the hardest time getting the concept of positioning the a/c in the runup area into the wind with the nosewheel straight, yet putting it in a position to not hog the entire runup area and/or block the taxi way.

Wow, that sounds like everyday at work for me....

 

[Ian_J]

Wow, that sounds like everyday at work for me....

I always get the "do I turn on the nav lights now?" Over and over again.

I'm big into the "you tell me" response for repeat offenders.

 

[Timbuff10]

Also, it seems that students have the hardest time getting the concept of positioning the a/c in the runup area into the wind with the nosewheel straight, yet putting it in a position to not hog the entire runup area and/or block the taxi way.

That I totally agree with! We have a fairly large runup area next to the taxiway and 99% of the people like to pull up as far as they can to the taxiway every time. I hate that. Keep me back away from all the other planes. I want to be back close to the grass tucked away so no one hits me.

 

[Timbuff10]

...just want to see what everyone is sick of repeating over and over again, sick of seeing over and over again...

Well, I am about to cook up some beef flavor ramen noodles... That can get old at times.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

I guess since it is in the AIM it isn't regulatory though, just good advice?

I've always loved it when people say that!!

If the AIM isn't regulatory, then neither are the PTS, aircraft POH or taxiway signs.

METAR contractions aren't regulatory, nor are turbulence reporting intensities!!!