Theives vs Newbies

Beehive

Beehive

Well-Known Member
"On August 3, 1981 nearly 13,000 of the 17,500 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) walked off the job, hoping to disrupt the nation's transportation system to the extent that the federal government would accede to its demands for higher wages, a shorter work week, and better retirement benefits."

For all the current controllers that are about to retire yet dislike current applicants for whatever reason(s):

You got your job because a person who did the same job as you was not satisfied with their working conditions and salary walked out and lost their job to better the working enviroment for you who gladly accepted that.
You blame applicants for low salaries and "horrible" working conditions yet you did the same thing in the early 80's.

Hypocrites.
 
Turn down the vitriol or we're going to discount anything you have to say.
 
Beehive said:
"On August 3, 1981 nearly 13,000 of the 17,500 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) walked off the job, hoping to disrupt the nation's transportation system to the extent that the federal government would accede to its demands for higher wages, a shorter work week, and better retirement benefits."

For all the current controllers that are about to retire yet dislike current applicants for whatever reason(s):

You got your job because a person who did the same job as you was not satisfied with their working conditions and salary walked out and lost their job to better the working enviroment for you who gladly accepted that.
You blame applicants for low salaries and "horrible" working conditions yet you did the same thing in the early 80's.

Hypocrites.
Click to expand...

after the 1981 strike nubee the FAA didnt cut controller wages the base pay stayed the same ,they increased controller pay with a 5% controller pay , ojti pay and cic pay, and had better work rules than PATCO had. in 2006 with out a strike the FAA cut you pay and work rules,you will make 30 to 40 % less than the old timers for working the same traffic, and god help you if you use your sick leave when you are sick and get a sick leave abuse letter like controller are getting now.no one here said they hate the new people, guess your going to learn the hard way.any way iam done with you

signed
A HYPOCRITE
 
Beehive said:
"On August 3, 1981 nearly 13,000 of the 17,500 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) walked off the job, hoping to disrupt the nation's transportation system to the extent that the federal government would accede to its demands for higher wages, a shorter work week, and better retirement benefits."

For all the current controllers that are about to retire yet dislike current applicants for whatever reason(s):

You got your job because a person who did the same job as you was not satisfied with their working conditions and salary walked out and lost their job to better the working enviroment for you who gladly accepted that.
You blame applicants for low salaries and "horrible" working conditions yet you did the same thing in the early 80's.

Hypocrites.
Click to expand...

Like I said before to you beehive,

I wouldn't trash talk him...Seems like hes been in the business for a while and knows whats going on. Become a controller and then you can maybe earn some respect...
this forum seems to be filled with people that have no controlling experience and think they know what its all about. I am not as experienced as some people but i'm experienced enough to know that you have to work the scope and be humble about your business and know that your are a piece of S#IT until you earn your first facility rating. queeno and ATLTRACON are the only people here that I look up at and one day hope to be a damn good controller that I know they are.....
Click to expand...
If the FAA treats their trainee controllers like the military does ...you WILL NOT make it. Even if you turn out to be a good trainee, cause your not a controller tell your earn you first facility rating, your attitude to your superiors can make you or break you. If you know your actually right about something you keep your mouth shut and move on.

Also, I don't see these people complaining about the "IWRS", to me their are merely trying to inform the incoming trainees about life as a controller right now. Seems to me you already stuck you foot in your mouth accusing them of something they are not. good luck
 
queeno, just retire ASAP man.

These kids will never understand until they eat the fruit.

This is just another example of them not really understanding what the hell is going on. Classic.
 
Beehive said:
"On August 3, 1981 nearly 13,000 of the 17,500 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) walked off the job, hoping to disrupt the nation's transportation system to the extent that the federal government would accede to its demands for higher wages, a shorter work week, and better retirement benefits."

For all the current controllers that are about to retire yet dislike current applicants Don't know where you get your information, but it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with dislike for anyone. Why would I, or anyone else, dislike anyone who is coming in to maybe help get me of the frickin OT (for anyone counting 60 weeks in a row) 'Course ya gotta wonder why ANYONE would want to come into the FFA under these conditions?for whatever reason(s):

You got your job because a person who did the same job as you was not satisfied with their working conditions and salary walked out and lost their job to better the working enviroment (environment)for you who gladly accepted that.
You blame applicants for low salaries and "horrible" working conditions yet you did the same thing in the early 80's.

Hypocrites.
Click to expand...
 
ATLTRACON, have you worked at any other facilities, tower or enroute maybe to compare the three?? I'm just trying to get an idea what to expect if I do in fact end up at N90 instead of the level 8 up/down I was hoping for. Putting the IWR/pay aside, do you like your job?? What is large tracon work like?? What is the training environment like?? Do you have any advice for a nubee who is not going to decline the offer?? Some of the ATM's I was talking to yesterday at the PEPC gave me a wide eyed look :panic:when I told them where I was headed. I actually started a debate between two atm's about starting people at a high level facility. One guy was the manager of a lvl 6 but worked at a 10 earlier in his careers and one worked at a lvl 8 but started at a lvl 12 center. The lvl6 guy felt that a trainee should start at a low/intermediate fac and work up to a high. The lvl8 dude thought that starting someone at a high lvl fac was a great idea bc they won't have any bad habits picked up while at a low lvl facility. I was just wondering your take on the whole situation. If you get a chance to respond I would greatly appreciate it.
thank you
user_offline.gif
 
I start and reply to threads to express my angerless opinion and receive others opinions, not necassarily to make friends, so to all those who replied thank you, that is what I wanted. It is also nice to see some people expressing their freedom of speech/press right and thanks to forums.jetcareers.com for allowing us to do so.
 
Careful about the freedom of speech / press rights here at JC. Two sides to that coin, no doubt. Perhaps DT will make an appearence and explain it to you.

Even this sub-forum is his living room, and in his living room - he can send you packing at any time.

But, perhaps he or one of the other moderators can say it a bit better.
 
Ozelot said:
If the FAA treats their trainee controllers like the military does...you WILL NOT make it.
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When did this forum become the military or FAA? When did applicants have to impress people in this forum to be considered for FAA employment?
 
surreal1221 said:
Careful about the freedom of speech / press rights here at JC. Two sides to that coin, no doubt. Perhaps DT will make an appearence and explain it to you.

Even this sub-forum is his living room, and in his living room - he can send you packing at any time.

But, perhaps he or one of the other moderators can say it a bit better.
Click to expand...
reads like your calling for the troops?
I don't write something and expect it to stick with everyone, I enjoy feedback even if it contest my opinion.
 
Beehive said:
When did this forum become the military or FAA? When did applicants have to impress people in this forum to be considered for FAA employment?
Click to expand...

I wasn't implying that this forum is military or FAA. I was stating the fact that if the FAA treats trainees like the military does..you won't get very far with your attitude.
You have your opinions and I have respect for that. I'm just trying to give a different perspective on things. These veteran controllers don't seem to be complaining, in my opinion, and some people think they are. Thats all.
 
"Don't know where you get your information, but it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with dislike for anyone. Why would I, or anyone else, dislike anyone who is coming in to maybe help get me of the frickin OT (for anyone counting 60 weeks in a row) 'Course ya gotta wonder why ANYONE would want to come into the FFA under these conditions?" -ATLTRACON
I was directing my opinion to current controllers that are about to retire yet dislike current applicants for whatever reason(s). I do not classify you sir as one of those. Your kid is about to take the ATSAT so I don't see you having an issue with newbies.
You sir have been the best source of information in this forum regarding current conditions within the FAA.
 
Ozelot said:
if the FAA treats trainees like the military does..you won't get very far with your attitude.
Click to expand...
My attitude is not this all the time especially at work no matter the conditions and if i'm not satisfied with the conditions I quit. I don't get online and whine about how other people should fix them for me.
 
queeno said:
after the 1981 strike nubee the FAA didnt cut controller wages the base pay stayed the same ,they increased controller pay with a 5% controller pay , ojti pay and cic pay, and had better work rules than PATCO had. in 2006 with out a strike the FAA cut you pay and work rules,you will make 30 to 40 % less than the old timers for working the same traffic, and god help you if you use your sick leave when you are sick and get a sick leave abuse letter like controller are getting now.no one here said they hate the new people, guess your going to learn the hard way.any way iam done with you

signed
A HYPOCRITE
Click to expand...
I understand the basics about the 80's strike. They wanted a 4/32 work week and higher pay. A hell of lot less than what some current controllers want, yet they got up and left. If no one applied for ATC positions after the firing in '81, the FAA would have been forced to accept PATCO's terms and conditions...sound familar?
Us newbies simply want to replace quitters and retirees, not steal anyone's job.
 
While PATCO was no saint organization, perhaps the FAA should have been forced to accept PATCO's terms and conditions.

We are, after all, labor. And I don't know about you, but I'm looking out for our (the collective body) interests. Not the FAA's.

But, times have changed. We had NATCA fighting for a quality contract, and of course NATCA will never strike, so IWRS are shoved down our throats. Spectacular. Now we have kids who are ignorant to history, trying to preach it to those who actually lived it.

Someday this generation (those being hired now) will wake up.
 
surreal1221 said:
While PATCO was no saint organization, perhaps the FAA should have been forced to accept PATCO's terms and conditions.

We are, after all, labor. And I don't know about you, but I'm looking out for our (the collective body) interests. Not the FAA's.

But, times have changed. We had NATCA fighting for a quality contract, and of course NATCA will never strike, so IWRS are shoved down our throats. Spectacular. Now we have kids who are ignorant to history, trying to preach it to those who actually lived it.

Someday this generation (those being hired now) will wake up.
Click to expand...

Wait. I'm confused. Are you a controller? What horse do you have in this race?
 
I have an association with NATCA, and have been well before the previous contract negotiations. I send money, on my own, through that membership to help bring controllers the work rules and compensation that they deserve.

On that regard, anyone who considers themselves a trade unionist, should be supporting one of the largest unions for government employees. Not that they have to follow my direction, but at least support the organization for the people behind it.
 
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