The way it still should be.

[MQAAord]

At least stop blaming the customers. I mean, I'm a customer now. And it's not my fault!!!!!

Settle down, Beavis!

I don't blame the customers for the actual act of price setting!

Oh, and btw, I'm a customer now too . I haven't flown on an airliner in almost 4 years now, but I've purchased many tickets for my parents. Regular, average-joe shopping tickets. (No ID-anythings.)

 

[derg]

Those exist?

 

[MQAAord]

So I've heard. But I love my parents far too much to send them standby anywhere! Also, I doubt they'd be eligible for any ID-whatevers as in-laws of an employee. I think in 7 years of working I used a space-available pass for a parent once.

 

[Toonces]

I know I will probably piss some of you off.

Some of you have allowed this profession to be degraded by your attitude that this business is nothing more than the greyhound of the skies. Your attitude rubs off on the passengers. I feel we could control the way we perceive ourselves and the way customers perceive us if we change the way we look at ourselves. I think we should discriminate against fat ugly and old flight attendants. I think my fellow pilots need to hold themselves to the highest of standards. Iron your shirt everyday, polish your shoes, have a neat haircut and for god’s sake stay in shape. Like it or not, the world wants to see good looking fit people. It's a fact that good-looking people get better jobs and make more money than ugly people. If we look like crap and act like we ARE nothing more than Greyhound employees; how is the general public supposed to perceive us? I think people will respond favorably to us (such as paying more for tickets and hopefully dressing better when they show up at the airport) if we focus more on our image.

Southwest has some dumpy flight attendant uniforms. When I ride on their airline I feel like I am either at a gay pride rally or a reunion for divorced cat lady meeting. How are passengers supposed to act when they see this?

Go to any country in Asia and check out their flight attendants. They recently had interviews for FA’s in China. I can’t remember which airline. They had thousands of applicants. The airline required them to be of a certain height, weight and beauty. Of course we can’t do that here because somebody may get offended. I’ll bet you most Americans if given a choice (and I include women too) would rather fly on an airline with hot flight attendants and good looking pilots.

 

[wzgrza]

I know I will probably piss some of you off.

Some of you have allowed this profession to be degraded by your attitude that this business is nothing more than the greyhound of the skies. Your attitude rubs off on the passengers. I feel we could control the way we perceive ourselves and the way customers perceive us if we change the way we look at ourselves. I think we should discriminate against fat ugly and old flight attendants. I think my fellow pilots need to hold themselves to the highest of standards. Iron your shirt everyday, polish your shoes, have a neat haircut and for god’s sake stay in shape. Like it or not, the world wants to see good looking fit people. It's a fact that good-looking people get better jobs and make more money than ugly people. If we look like crap and act like we ARE nothing more than Greyhound employees; how is the general public supposed to perceive us? I think people will respond favorably to us (such as paying more for tickets and hopefully dressing better when they show up at the airport) if we focus more on our image.

Southwest has some dumpy flight attendant uniforms. When I ride on their airline I feel like I am either at a gay pride rally or a reunion for divorced cat lady meeting. How are passengers supposed to act when they see this?

Go to any country in Asia and check out their flight attendants. They recently had interviews for FA’s in China. I can’t remember which airline. They had thousands of applicants. The airline required them to be of a certain height, weight and beauty. Of course we can’t do that here because somebody may get offended. I’ll bet you most Americans if given a choice (and I include women too) would rather fly on an airline with hot flight attendants and good looking pilots.

I would agree that is part of the reason. How can you expect anyone to respect you, if you don't respect yourself, or what you do. Not everyone, but there are plenty of examples out there. So that does contribute. But at the same time, it's hard to maintain that mind-set when you've been shafted on multiple occasions, and treated/paid as crap by your company.

But I do agree. There is a world of difference when you see a foreign crew walk by, and then a U.S crew. There is no denying this.

 

[flyTotheSky]

I know I will probably piss some of you off.

Some of you have allowed this profession to be degraded by your attitude that this business is nothing more than the greyhound of the skies. Your attitude rubs off on the passengers. I feel we could control the way we perceive ourselves and the way customers perceive us if we change the way we look at ourselves. I think we should discriminate against fat ugly and old flight attendants. I think my fellow pilots need to hold themselves to the highest of standards. Iron your shirt everyday, polish your shoes, have a neat haircut and for god’s sake stay in shape. Like it or not, the world wants to see good looking fit people. It's a fact that good-looking people get better jobs and make more money than ugly people. If we look like crap and act like we ARE nothing more than Greyhound employees; how is the general public supposed to perceive us? I think people will respond favorably to us (such as paying more for tickets and hopefully dressing better when they show up at the airport) if we focus more on our image.

Southwest has some dumpy flight attendant uniforms. When I ride on their airline I feel like I am either at a gay pride rally or a reunion for divorced cat lady meeting. How are passengers supposed to act when they see this?

Go to any country in Asia and check out their flight attendants. They recently had interviews for FA’s in China. I can’t remember which airline. They had thousands of applicants. The airline required them to be of a certain height, weight and beauty. Of course we can’t do that here because somebody may get offended. I’ll bet you most Americans if given a choice (and I include women too) would rather fly on an airline with hot flight attendants and good looking pilots.

Get the popcorn out...this should be good

 

[wzgrza]

Somebody has already done this. They call it NetJets.

But you've gotta pony up to get the "experience."

Were talking about the cabin and flight crew looking classy and tidy, treating you like a guest, nice uniforms, interiors, and the passengers get an extra bag of peanuts, and might I actually say some decent food? anic: Not your very own Buisness Jet. And how much extra would it cost per pax for this service? 5-8$ a ticket maybe?

U.S airlines should take example after other foreign carriers.

 

[FlyChicaga]

The grass is always greener.

I think the best thing that could happen to this industry is to abolish the TSA. That organization is about the only thing that makes me dread going to work. Otherwise, things are good. Oh, and I like the SWA flight attendant uniforms. Even though it is considered "casual," their uniforms are normally clean pressed, and they fit properly.

Everybody wants to go back to the "Golden Age of Flying," but I'm sure nobody wants to go back to the "Golden Age of No Cell Phones" or the "Golden Age of Black and White TV." Times change.

 

[wzgrza]

I'm glad flying is nothing like this anymore, it has opened fast, efficient and safe transportation over long distances to the masses and I think that's a good thing. I'm all about raising ticket prices to make enough money to pay for the product (or re-regulating), but I'm not all about raising the pretentious level to the point that only WASP's can get on jet's.

WASP's?

I assume rich people, but not sure what it actually stands for. lol.

Its great that flying is efficient, safe transportation over long distances, and that its available to the masses. But raising a ticket price 5-8$ to get some better service, and be treated more specially is not marketing it only to the rich. I flew Singapore airlines in Economy and I felt I was in buisness, and it was for a perfectly reasonable price! I would spend the extra couple of bucks for a better experience, but I can only speak for myself.

How much extra would a ticket really be per pax to do something like this, I'm only guessing it wouldnt be much per person.

I wish I could start up my own airline and try this out. It would be the best airline in the U.S. Or it would go bust...

 

[WAFlyBoy]

I recently visited the National Air and Space museum in DC (highly recommended for any aviation enthusiast), where they have an exhibit dedicated to the history of US airlines and airline travel.

They have some very interesting artifacts from commercial aviation's earlier days. Included in them was an airline advertisement proclaiming "a businessman should be able to look at a pretty face on his flight home," referencing the quality of their flight attendants. Models showed airplanes full passengers dressed in their Sunday-best, enjoying full meals. 707's filled with happy, affluent passengers.

How times have changed! Air travel is now cheap for all, if you don't mind bringing your own lunch. There's first class for those who want a meal and a bigger seat, but you won't find a slender raven-haired, green-eyed stewardess in a high-cut form-fitting uniform.

Enter the business jet. The proliferation of the business jet has brought back the amenities of high-class air travel and then some. Catering. Friendly and professional flight crews. First-class on-demand service.

Like it or not, the disparity between the haves and the have-nots is getting larger. Those who want to (and are able to) pay the price for high-class air travel will use private jets. Everybody else will fly in airliners - or, as somebody else mentioned, public transit. Airlines will continue to provide bare-minimum service for domestic flights and fractionals will continue to grow. The "Glory days" of airline travel are clearly behind us. Barring an unforeseen distribution of wealth in America, I don't expect we will ever see it again.

There is nothing that pilots or flight attendants or CSAs can do to change this. The only force powerful enough is consumer dollars. And since dollars flow like water from the middle-class to the affluent (where those dollars end up calling home), a change to the Golden Days is unlikely.

 

[Toonces]

http://www.gadling.com/2007/11/24/want-to-be-a-chinese-flight-attendant-don-t-bother-if-you-re-no/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTMfUq7atYk&feature=related

http://www.jyi.org/volumes/volume6/issue6/features/feng.html

http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/05/cx_sr_0505bizbasics.html

 

[WAFlyBoy]

Were talking about the cabin and flight crew looking classy and tidy, treating you like a guest, nice uniforms, interiors, and the passengers get an extra bag of peanuts, and might I actually say some decent food? anic: Not your very own Buisness Jet. And how much extra would it cost per pax for this service? 5-8$ a ticket maybe?

I don't know how much it would cost, and neither does anybody else here. But think about it for a second. Food: shop for and contract with a vendor. Vendor produces and delivers product. Cabin crew uses specialized equipment (adding cost and weight to aircraft, which doesn't sound like much until you multiply it by the size of the fleet) to heat and serve food. I'd venture to guess that more beverages get served when food is provided. More waste needs to be off loaded before new food can be brought on board. Turn times increase.

The above scenario is just a guess on how it might work, but you can see that the "costs" are perhaps greater than a quick glance leads us to believe. My point is, when folks speculate about things like this they tend to over-simplify the scenario.

I believe that if airline travelers (generalized as a whole) were willing to "pay an extra $x or $y for a meal," they'd be doing it. I believe that if anybody with experience and insight on operating an airline believed that travelers would "spend the extra couple of bucks for a better experience", this business model would have already been deployed.

The direction we (as pilots) want to see the industry go probably varies from that of travelers, investors, and managers. And who has more power to change it?

 

[MQAAord]

Looks, as they say, are only skin-deep.

Throwing away an employee who does a great job at the ripe old age of 35 is as stupid as hiring someone simply because they're a size 2. Job performance should determine continuation of employment (and hiring), over just a pretty face anyday. I do firmly believe in height/weight restrictions that affect job performance, for example the ability to walk forward-facing down the aisle, the ability to operate and expeditiously exit through any exit on the airplane (window exits included), and the ability to maneuver galley equipment. If age or size prevents operation of or egress through an exit, then something needs to change. Either retirement or weight loss.

There was a time in history when women were not allowed to vote, a time when women were expected to only have babies and tend to a home, and I personally am glad we've moved past that as a society

 

[Toonces]

Looks, as they say, are only skin-deep.

Throwing away an employee who does a great job at the ripe old age of 35 is as stupid as hiring someone simply because they're a size 2. Job performance should determine continuation of employment (and hiring), over just a pretty face anyday. I do firmly believe in height/weight restrictions that affect job performance, for example the ability to walk forward-facing down the aisle, the ability to operate and expeditiously exit through any exit on the airplane (window exits included), and the ability to maneuver galley equipment. If age or size prevents operation of or egress through an exit, then something needs to change. Either retirement or weight loss.

There was a time in history when women were not allowed to vote, a time when women were expected to only have babies and tend to a home, and I personally am glad we've moved past that as a society

I imagine there are plenty of hot women under 35 that can do the job as well. I am sure there are plenty of 45 year old women who could wait tables at Hooters. You gotta know when to hang it up. I am glad they don't though.
Now about this whole women voting thing....
Ducking

 

[MQAAord]

I imagine there are plenty of hot women under 35 that can do the job as well. I am sure there are plenty of 45 year old women who could wait tables at Hooters. I am glad they don't though.
Now about this whole women voting thing....
Ducking

Yeah, but many of them would probably want to keep their jobs once they hit 35. Again, forced retirement at 35 because of age alone is stupid, and thankfully, against U.S. labor laws.

Would you want your mother, sister, wife, or daughter held to your sexist standards? I suppose if your sister was a flight attendant you wouldn't be upset if a male passenger grabbed her behind and made unwelcome sexual comments to her? After all, she's hot and there to be oogled, so why shouldn't he grab her, too? Oh, yeah, that's against the law too.......

 

[Jayrock]

The grass is always greener.

I think the best thing that could happen to this industry is to abolish the TSA. That organization is about the only thing that makes me dread going to work. Otherwise, things are good. Oh, and I like the SWA flight attendant uniforms. Even though it is considered "casual," their uniforms are normally clean pressed, and they fit properly.

Everybody wants to go back to the "Golden Age of Flying," but I'm sure nobody wants to go back to the "Golden Age of No Cell Phones" or the "Golden Age of Black and White TV." Times change.

+1

 

[Toonces]

Yeah, but many of them would probably want to keep their jobs once they hit 35. Again, forced retirement at 35 because of age alone is stupid, and thankfully, against U.S. labor laws.

Would you want your mother, sister, wife, or daughter held to your sexist standards? I suppose if your sister was a flight attendant you wouldn't be upset if a male passenger grabbed her behind and made unwelcome sexual comments to her? After all, she's hot and there to be oogled, so why shouldn't he grab her, too? Oh, yeah, that's against the law too.......

Again. I am sorry if this offends you. However; if there are two flight attendants walking down the isle, one of them 18 and attractive and the other a 59 year old divorced mother of 3 I know who I will be paying attention to. I reject the notion that because there are beautiful women present that men automatically grope them. Have you been to many strip clubs? It’s like you are in church at most of them. I see guys misbehave much more outside a nudie bar than inside one.

From a business standpoint beautiful people are a wise investment. Sex always sells. Have you noticed the large number of attractive singers out there? There are lots of average to ugly people who can sing too however, when trying to sell an album using hotties works better.

I believe we were originally talking about bringing back the glory days of flying. When service was good, customers dressed for the occasion and stewardesses were hot. I think the chances of bringing back the glory days is better with better looking stewardesses.

 

[MQAAord]

However; if there are two flight attendants walking down the isle, one of them 18 and attractive and the other a 59 year old divorced mother of 3 I know who I will be paying attention to.

:laff: Paying attention too? Okay...... So the flight attendants are there for you to pay attention to? In what way? The safety briefing? If you choose not to pay attention to me during the safety briefing because I'm 59, divorced with 3 kids you're only hurting yourself. If you choose not to pay attention to me during an evacuation because I'm 59 that yourself that's not finding the exit in the dark Federal law requires that you "pay attention" to a crew member (of any age) if they ask you to do something like put away your cell phone, and if you choose not to pay attention me in that regard because I'm 59 then you can deal with the local law enforcement for failure to comply with crewmember instructions.

I reject the notion that because there are beautiful women present that men automatically grope them. Have you been to many strip clubs? It’s like you are in church at most of them. I see guys misbehave much more outside a nudie bar than inside one.

Ever been groped on a plane? I have. I was not impressed.

From a business standpoint beautiful people are a wise investment. Sex always sells.

From an airline standpoint, price always sells. Advertising hot stews will only draw so much business. Having the lowest price on Expedia brings far more customers.

I believe we were originally talking about bringing back the glory days of flying. When service was good, customers dressed for the occasion and stewardesses were hot. I think the chances of bringing back the glory days is better with better looking stewardesses.

I like Matt's statement of bring back the glory days of black and white TV. Good customer service needs to come back, but one does not have to be hot to provide good customer service.

 

[Toonces]

Let's face it. Attractive flight stewardesses were part of what made the glory days the glory days. Let's bring back stunning FA's, bigger seats, meals on every flight and weed out the sloppy glutinous pilots that make us all look bad.

While were at it we need have all flying done by mainline regardless of aircraft size. I think the regionals are partly to blame for the glory days slipping away.

Hope I didn't hurt your feelings Amber. As for the rest of you....who cares

 

[MQAAord]

Let's face it. Attractive flight stewardesses were part of what made the glory days the glory days. Let's bring back stunning FA's, bigger seats, meals on every flight and weed out the sloppy glutinous pilots that make us all look bad.

Nah, I'm not going to face it The "glory days" of aviation were "glory" because it was "new". If you wanna bring it all back, let's bring back mid-airs, lack of radar, radio ranges, and lack of understanding of aviation weather too

While were at it we need have all flying done by mainline regardless of aircraft size. I think the regionals are partly to blame for the glory days slipping away.

I agree completely with all flights being done by mainline pilots.

Hope I didn't hurt your feelings Amber. As for the rest of you....who cares

Hurt my feelings? Of course not. I am actually far more willing to talk about why it's not right to toss someone out of their job because of their age than to let something think it's okay without hearing the other side of the story. I don't mind telling you how I feel about this, and you'll notice I've refrained from name-calling or insults. I think rational arguments and reasoning are far better than calling someone a poopy-head. I've also noticed you've done the same, not calling me a poopy-head for disagreeing with you.