The time has come...maybe

surreal1221 said:
Yes he was.

Maybe.

But, I believe he is no longer around.

So...yeah.
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orly? That'd be fantastic. Think they could find somebody to fix the whole "Let's do RNAV approaches, and do them CANPA, but there's no VNAV so...OH I KNOW! WE'LL USE THE GINNED UP, BOGUS DATA SOMETIMES VPI AND HAVE THE PILOTS CHASE IT USING VERTICAL SPEED DOWN TO MDA!!!!" thing?

When I got hired I was told to not trust the VPI because it'll give you bad data sometimes and not warn you about it. By the time I left, they told me to trust the VPI like your checkride depended on it...because it did.
 
jtrain609 said:
orly? That'd be fantastic. Think they could find somebody to fix the whole "Let's do RNAV approaches, and do them CANPA, but there's no VNAV so...OH I KNOW! WE'LL USE THE GINNED UP, BOGUS DATA SOMETIMES VPI AND HAVE THE PILOTS CHASE IT USING VERTICAL SPEED DOWN TO MDA!!!!" thing?

When I got hired I was told to not trust the VPI because it'll give you bad data sometimes and not warn you about it. By the time I left, they told me to trust the VPI like your checkride depended on it...because it did.
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On the CRJ we didn't trust the "snowflake" but we did trust the angle on the chart. You add the 50 feet to the MDA for a little flub factor, and descend at roughly 3 degrees down to that new DDA. WAY better than dive and drive.

We still do the dive and drive at Blue, and I hate it. It's an accident waiting to happen. They are always rushed/high workload, and on the E190 there are a couple of "gotchas" that will get you killed if you aren't careful. You should see the stuff that goes on during those approaches during training events.

We have "FPA" mode on the E190. I don't understand why we don't set 3 degrees at the FAF and fly to a DDA, then get the heck out of there.
 
You can do CANPA without chasing the vpi using vs mode. Did you ever sit in the sim and watch how it's done? It's as much if an accident waiting to happen as dive and drive is, in my opinion.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
On the CRJ we didn't trust the "snowflake" but we did trust the angle on the chart. You add the 50 feet to the MDA for a little flub factor, and descend at roughly 3 degrees down to that new DDA. WAY better than dive and drive.

We still do the dive and drive at Blue, and I hate it. It's an accident waiting to happen. They are always rushed/high workload, and on the E190 there are a couple of "gotchas" that will get you killed if you aren't careful. You should see the stuff that goes on during those approaches during training events.

We have "FPA" mode on the E190. I don't understand why we don't set 3 degrees at the FAF and fly to a DDA, then get the heck out of there.
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Also, why don't you guys just use pink needle data for non precision non loc approaches? Even xjt got that opspec.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
On the CRJ we didn't trust the "snowflake" but we did trust the angle on the chart. You add the 50 feet to the MDA for a little flub factor, and descend at roughly 3 degrees down to that new DDA. WAY better than dive and drive.

We still do the dive and drive at Blue, and I hate it. It's an accident waiting to happen. They are always rushed/high workload, and on the E190 there are a couple of "gotchas" that will get you killed if you aren't careful. You should see the stuff that goes on during those approaches during training events.

We have "FPA" mode on the E190. I don't understand why we don't set 3 degrees at the FAF and fly to a DDA, then get the heck out of there.
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We do dive and drive at my shop. I still like it better... more time to look for a runway. It's only dangerous imHo. You can lessen the danger of high VS values by starting down to the MDA several 10ths of a mile before the FAF (just found out that's approved). I believe it was the same at @BobDDuck 's old shop with the prior-to-the-fix descent.
 
jtrain609 said:
Also, why don't you guys just use pink needle data for non precision non loc approaches? Even xjt got that opspec.
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Non precisions (non-loc) at our place:
VOR & VOR/DME - PF --> FMS & PM VOR Bearing Pointer || PM --> VOR
NDB - PF&PNF --> FMS with both ADF Bearing Pointers
NDB/DME - PF --> FMS with both ADF Bearing Pointers || PM --> VOR/LOC with both Bearing Pointers
RNAV(GPS) /GPS - PF&PNF --> FMS
 
jtrain609 said:
Also, why don't you guys just use pink needle data for non precision non loc approaches? Even xjt got that opspec.
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We do use FMS needles. We only do green needles for LOC. LOCs are the only procedures that must be step- downs too. The others may use VNAV if there's a coded descent angle, etc. Some approaches must use step downs that aren't LOC, such as VOR 13L in JFK.
 
cencal83406 said:
We do dive and drive at my shop. I still like it better... more time to look for a runway. It's only dangerous imHo. You can lessen the danger of high VS values by starting down to the MDA several 10ths of a mile before the FAF (just found out that's approved). I believe it was the same at @BobDDuck 's old shop with the prior-to-the-fix descent.
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The risks are higher. More time at low alt = more risk. More risk = less safe.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
We do use FMS needles. We only do green needles for LOC. LOCs are the only procedures that must be step- downs too. The others may use VNAV if there's a coded descent angle, etc. Some approaches must use step downs that aren't LOC, such as VOR 13L in JFK.
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Is there a reason for LOC approaches being flown like that? CDFA or CANPA approaches have been the norm for LOC approaches for a while now. Set a vertical speed for a given ground speed, look out the window and if you see the runway at DDA, land. If not, go around.
 
jtrain609 said:
Is there a reason for LOC approaches being flown like that? CDFA or CANPA approaches have been the norm for LOC approaches for a while now. Set a vertical speed for a given ground speed, look out the window and if you see the runway at DDA, land. If not, go around.
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I have no idea. If it were up to me, we would join the rest of the industry, and reduce our risk posture a bit...

I just choose the RNAV if the glideslope is OTS. (If available) Then we can just use VGP (VNAV) to the MDA. Mucho better.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
We do use FMS needles. We only do green needles for LOC. LOCs are the only procedures that must be step- downs too. The others may use VNAV if there's a coded descent angle, etc. Some approaches must use step downs that aren't LOC, such as VOR 13L in JFK.
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We use FPA on the 175 where I work when flying a LOC. Add 50' to the MDA and fly it like an ILS.
 
The simulator instructors never liked, during the days we were briefing 'threats' when I'd say, "Today's biggest threat is an unforeseen circumstance that will occur when we've fatalistically briefed and over focused on something else" or "Today's biggest threat is gravity and conservation of energy".
 
Derg said:
The simulator instructors never liked, during the days we were briefing 'threats' when I'd say, "Today's biggest threat is an unforeseen circumstance that will occur when we've fatalistically briefed and over focused on something else" or "Today's biggest threat is gravity and conservation of energy".
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Super relevant though. The Herks have learned this lesson over the last 10 years that the biggest threat out there is ourselves. Stop trying to be "tactical", and fly a stable approach.
 
Exactly. But they would constantly bitch as there was a NOTAMed taxiway closure and we didn't brief that. On approach. But the biggest threat was probably a missed approach as you rarely do that outside of training.
 
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