the third problem

intern_mike

intern_mike

E-175 f/o
With the cost of training so astronomically high, and the unwillingness of banks to lend for said training, where will the new generation come from? When I left FSA in August there was a 97 person waiting list, all on hold because lenders no longer finance flight training. Now, I know that FSA is one of the most expensive flight schools, however, it's not unrealistic to expect flight training to cost at least 60k anywhere. Your thoughts?

Problem:
1. H.R. 3371 (unrealistically high minimums for the pay)
2. Age 65 guys leaving in a couple of years leaving empty seats at the regionals.
3. see above
 
intern_mike said:
With the cost of training so astronomically high, and the unwillingness of banks to lend for said training, where will the new generation come from? When I left FSA in August there was a 97 person waiting list, all on hold because lenders no longer finance flight training. Now, I know that FSA is one of the most expensive flight schools, however, it's not unrealistic to expect flight training to cost at least 60k anywhere. Your thoughts?

Problem:
1. H.R. 3371 (unrealistically high minimums for the pay)
2. Age 65 guys leaving in a couple of years leaving empty seats at the regionals.
3. see above
Click to expand...

I think 60K is very unreasonable! Fond a small FBO and get everything for 30-40K and save 20K. Even in the north east with prices being the highest I have seen for local FBO planes, it is still possible to get all your ratings up through MEI for 40k.

Unless every hour is in a twin, except those for SEL, I dont see the need for such high costs.
 
Also, most of the big financiers have quit doing loans for flight training:

Key Bank
Sallie Mae
etc...


Still, I think there are plenty of pilots that are out there that will work for a decent wage.
 
intern_mike said:
With the cost of training so astronomically high, and the unwillingness of banks to lend for said training, where will the new generation come from?
Click to expand...

It will just be like the oil embargo in the late 70's. While the cost was driven higher, people still found ways to get gas and use their cars.

IMHO cost has nothing to do with if there will be enough people. People are creative enough to find ways to satisfy their needs.
 
A large enough demand for new pilots that used up the current glut of guys waiting in the wings would be an interesting problem. Its tough to think of a solution, credit will not be available for higher risk lendees. It will probably depend on the default level creditors have seen from previous experience with pilots. I know people who have financed medical and law school recently, so credit is still out there for risk the banks are willing to take. I hope the solution doesn't involve cabotage or hiring foreign workers, but I don't think it will be possibly to train large amounts of pilots quickly, because it simply is too expensive and the loans pose too much risk to banks. Airlines may have to get involved with backing loans for future employees, but I don't know if they will have the financial clout necessary to get that done.
 
Im thinking there are plenty of people waiting in the ranks for a job. May be in the US, regionals will just hire people that trained at pilot mills with all the $ that the US pumped into their economy..
 
In my view, all HR 3371 and Age 65 does is to make things just a little more difficult but people will find ways if they really want the job. The thing that makes this bad is that any time building jobs will either drop in salary or stagnate with increased supply. With more people CFIing, CFI pay will likely drop and 135 cargo will also drop in pay as people become more desperate to find multi-engine time for the ATP. Even if regional pay does increase, majors will either eliminate that flying or take some of it in house ( a good thing) creating a surplus supply of pilots and lower pay at majors that now have the upper hand over employees. So in short, if ATP for hire passes there will never be a pilot shortage. If a severe one does happen, it will become an emergency situation and requirements will be lowered by act of Congress. Unless the govt takes over the airlines and runs them like a state owned carrier, the lowest bidder will always displace more costly operations. Even if ATP for hire passes and regionals survive a pilot shortage with higher salaries to pilots, there will be a Colgan or Trans States that will be there to undercut. A time not too long ago when high salaries were the norm, Southwest underbid majors and eventually the Southwest pay scales caused the legacies to crash. I also remember that in the 90s, many regionals required 2500TT and PFT. PFT and/or longer, more restrictive training contracts will be very common if regional airlines are forced to raise pay. The regionals will try to offset higher salaries with lower training costs. In an ideal world, we could have ATP for hire with higher salaries everywhere and growth everywhere but we do not live in that world. There is no single answer that will make the industry better for anyone. ATP for hire is no guarantee of higher pay or better training at regionals. There will always be a minimum standard of training and I do not think any of the new measures will stop all airlines from having a minimum standard of training. If no pilot shortage happens, ATP for hire will mean nothing for pilot pay. Is ATP for hire a good step or is it simply an unrealistic expectation for hire in a time when jobs to obtain it are fewer than in the past and with other alternatives like MPL to produce a quality pilot? I honestly do not know and I would be lying if I said I did.
 
I wouldn't hold any breath for a pilot shortage. I've been hearing that for years....won't happen.
 
Airdale said:
I wouldn't hold any breath for a pilot shortage. I've been hearing that for years....won't happen.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

Never going to happen, anyone telling you a shortage is coming is selling you something; most likely over priced flight training.
 
minitour said:
Only if the instructor is below the poverty level.

-mini
Click to expand...

Not true. The community college flight school aside, there are a number of schools in my area with instructors making between 35 and 50 an hour depending on instruction.

Instruction costs make up such a small percentage of overall costs anyway. What it really comes down to is the equipment costs.

Most of these schools have the standard equipment, you can find a 152 for $80 an hour, a nicely equipped 172 for $100-$130 and an RG for $130-$160.

152@ $80 for 100 hours = $8,000'
172@ $120 for 130 hours = $15,600
182@ $150 for 20 hours = $3,000
Instructor, 30 hours for PPL @$40, 40 hrs for Ins/Com @45= $3,000
ME $5,000, CFI,$3,000, CFII $3,000
Books, charts, foggles, headset and other stuff...$1,000
Writtens and checkrides $2,000

Total $43,600.

That can be further reduced if you use a Sim as much as possible, build time as a safety pilot with other students, use the FAA publications to study and be prepared prior to each flight to minimize ground time. Also, you can replace the 182 with the twin time, getting the ME comm first then get the SEL com add on in a basic airplane.

Get your glider rating and get as much time as possible. Get a tailwheel endorsement and fly a J-3. Not sure of rates elsewhere but I can get into one for $80 an hour.

This is in the Northeast, I am sure you can find better deals in Arizona or Florida.
 
bdhill1979 said:
:yeahthat:

Never going to happen, anyone telling you a shortage is coming is selling you something; most likely over priced flight training.
Click to expand...

Just last year the regionals were hiring guys with 280 hours total time and the majors calling back pilots with DUI's not a shortage? The average age of a 121 pilot is 58 years old and flight schools right now are all hurting for students. I am just going to take a guess that after everyone catches up to the 65 year rule "2012" and lack of new students their just might be a shortage :dunno:
 
Giggity said:
Just last year the regionals were hiring guys with 280 hours total time and the majors calling back pilots with DUI's not a shortage? The average age of a 121 pilot is 58 years old and flight schools right now are all hurting for students. I am just going to take a guess that after everyone catches up to the 65 year rule "2012" and lack of new students their just might be a shortage :dunno:
Click to expand...
Which major airline was recalling DUI pilots?

Not all schools are hurting for students, some are still really busy.

Lowering hiring standards because better qualified applicants won't work for the offered compensation does not make a shortage. I know lots of well qualified pilots that are working outside aviation because McDonalds paid better than going to an airline.
 
bdhill1979 said:
Which major airline was recalling DUI pilots?

Not all schools are hurting for students, some are still really busy.

Lowering hiring standards because better qualified applicants won't work for the offered compensation does not make a shortage. I know lots of well qualified pilots that are working outside aviation because McDonalds paid better than going to an airline.
Click to expand...

Its called supply and demand. I have friends that jumped from a regional FO to a Capt in less then 1 1/2 years during that boom. Right now the mins have shot up because their are more pilots then jobs Utahns waiting for a skywest slot or a non existent corp gig isnt exactly holding out for a better job :)
 
Giggity said:
Its called supply and demand. I have friends that jumped from a regional FO to a Capt in less then 1 1/2 years during that boom. Right now the mins have shot up because their are more pilots then jobs Utahns waiting for a skywest slot or a non existent corp gig isnt exactly holding out for a better job :)
Click to expand...
You did not answer my question, which Major airline was recalling DUIs?

What does Utah and Skywest have to do with anything? Nationwide there are far more qualified pilots than there are jobs. According to the FAA as of 2008 there are 124,746 commercial pilots, and 146, 838 Airline Transport Pilots, making a total of 271,584 employable pilots in the US. According to Airline Pilot Central there are 99,696 US based jobs. Granted that is not a full accounting of Corporate, Flight instructing, air ag, etc..... but that is a VERY LARGE portion of the total jobs in this country.

Edit to add: I took the number of total pilots, not the active, so there are thousands on furlough already, adding to the EXCESS of pilots versus jobs available.

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 143pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="190"><col style="width: 95pt;" width="126"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 18pt;" height="24"> <td colspan="2" class="xl26" style="height: 18pt; width: 143pt;" width="190" height="24">Legacy</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Alaska</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="1455" align="right">1,455</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">American</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="11166" align="right">11,166</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Continental</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="4867" align="right">4,867</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Delta</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="12299">12,299</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Hawiian</td> <td x:num="" align="right">404</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Northwest</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="5156" align="right">5,156</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">United</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="6478" align="right">6,478</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">US Airways</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="5275" align="right">5,275</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Total</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="47100" x:fmla="=SUM(B2:B9)" align="right">47,100</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 18pt;" height="24"> <td colspan="2" class="xl26" style="height: 18pt;" height="24">Major-National-LCC</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Air Tran</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="1632" align="right">1,632</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Allegiant</td> <td x:num="" align="right">281</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Aloha</td> <td x:num="" align="right">34</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">American Eagle</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="2725" align="right">2,725</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">ASA</td> <td x:num="" align="right">1695</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Comair</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="1476" align="right">1,476</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Express Jet</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="2725" align="right">2,725</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Frontier</td> <td x:num="" align="right">718</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jet Blue</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="2006" align="right">2,006</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mesa</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="1446" align="right">1,446</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Midwest</td> <td x:num="" align="right">390</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Republic</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="2069" align="right">2,069</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Skywest</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="2809" align="right">2,809</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Southwest</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="5915" align="right">5,915</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Spirit</td> <td x:num="" align="right">519</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Sun Country</td> <td x:num="" align="right">156</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:str="USA 3000 " height="17">USA 3000 </td> <td x:num="" align="right">129</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Virgin America</td> <td x:num="" align="right">327</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:str="Total " height="17">Total </td> <td class="xl24" x:num="27052" x:fmla="=SUM(B14:B31)" align="right">27,052</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 18pt;" height="24"> <td class="xl27" style="height: 18pt;" height="24">CARGO</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">ABX air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">630</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">AirNet</td> <td x:num="" align="right">148</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Ameriflight</td> <td x:num="" align="right">200</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Amerijet</td> <td x:num="" align="right">57</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Arrow</td> <td x:num="" align="right">120</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Astar</td> <td x:num="" align="right">503</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">ATI</td> <td x:num="" align="right">150</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Atlas</td> <td x:num="" align="right">630</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Capital</td> <td x:num="" align="right">105</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Centurion</td> <td x:num="" align="right">69</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Empire</td> <td x:num="" align="right">102</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Evergreen</td> <td x:num="" align="right">225</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">FedEx</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="4678" align="right">4,678</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Flight Express</td> <td x:num="" align="right">37</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Kalitta</td> <td x:num="" align="right">360</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Kalitta Charters</td> <td x:num="" align="right">35</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Lynden</td> <td x:num="" align="right">80</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mountain Air Cargo</td> <td x:num="" align="right">120</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">National</td> <td x:num="" align="right">34</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Polar</td> <td x:num="" align="right">360</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Southern Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">265</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Tradewinds</td> <td x:num="" align="right">115</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">UPS</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="2908" align="right">2,908</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Total</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=SUM(B37:B59)" align="right">11931</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 18pt;" height="24"> <td colspan="2" class="xl28" style="height: 18pt;" height="24">REGIONAL</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Air Wisconsin</td> <td x:num="" align="right">716</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Cape Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">188</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Colgan Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">435</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Commut Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">130</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Compass</td> <td x:num="" align="right">365</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Era</td> <td x:num="" align="right">58</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Go Jet</td> <td x:num="" align="right">250</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Great Lakes</td> <td x:num="" align="right">335</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Gulfstream</td> <td x:num="" align="right">260</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Horizon Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">721</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Island Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">64</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Lynx</td> <td x:num="" align="right">104</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mesaba</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="1169" align="right">1,169</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Pen Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">120</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Piedmont</td> <td x:num="" align="right">477</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Pinnacle</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="1303" align="right">1,303</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">PSA</td> <td x:num="" align="right">520</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Trans States</td> <td x:num="" align="right">446</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:str="Total " height="17">Total </td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=SUM(B64:B81)" align="right">7661</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 18pt;" height="24"> <td colspan="2" class="xl28" style="height: 18pt;" height="24">FRACTIONAL</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Avantair</td> <td x:num="" align="right">234</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Citation Shares</td> <td x:num="" align="right">410</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Flex Jet</td> <td x:num="" align="right">460</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Flight Options</td> <td x:num="" align="right">534</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">NetJets</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="2943" align="right">2,943</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Planesense</td> <td x:num="" align="right">105</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">XO Jet</td> <td x:num="" align="right">100</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Total</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=SUM(B86:B92)" align="right">4786</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 18pt;" height="24"> <td colspan="2" class="xl28" style="height: 18pt;" height="24">CHARTER</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Key Lime Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">31</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Miami Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">99</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">North American</td> <td x:num="" align="right">190</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Omni Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">245</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Ryan International</td> <td x:num="" align="right">145</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">World</td> <td x:num="" align="right">525</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Xtra</td> <td x:num="" align="right">31</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Total</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=SUM(B98:B104)" align="right">1266</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 18pt;" height="24"> <td colspan="2" class="xl28" style="height: 18pt;" height="24">PART 135</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Air Cargo Carriers</td> <td x:num="" align="right">70</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Kalitta Charters</td> <td x:num="" align="right">51</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Kenmore Air</td> <td x:num="" align="right">52</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Total</td> <td x:num="" x:fmla="=SUM(B109:B111)" align="right">173</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" x:str="Grand Total " height="17">Grand Total </td> <td class="xl24" x:num="99969" x:fmla="=SUM(B113,B106,B94,B83,B61,B33,B11)" align="right">99,969</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CBen%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C04%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> P.S.: You are contradicting yourself in saying "More pilots than jobs". Is that not the definition of no shortage?

P.P.S.: I am in that "Non-existent Corp Gig", have been for over two years now.
 
Giggity said:
Just last year the regionals were hiring guys with 280 hours total time and the majors calling back pilots with DUI's not a shortage? The average age of a 121 pilot is 58 years old and flight schools right now are all hurting for students. I am just going to take a guess that after everyone catches up to the 65 year rule "2012" and lack of new students their just might be a shortage :dunno:
Click to expand...

*Sigh*
 
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