The "Rest of the Story" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

We just have to be extraordinarily careful politically with the situation. Remember, the Brits could just as easily make arrivals at LHR and LGW 'handgun-free' and completely through off the FFDO and skymarshal program.

And if the rest of the EU hops onboard in protest, we could experience a tremendous 'war' of sorts.

Personally, I don't have a problem with handguns on aircraft at all, pretty much because some of my good pals are involved with the FFDO program, but this is going to take diplomacy, without the 'our way or the highway' approach to it because we could absolutely get burned.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

They may not pierce the airframe, but I have a hard time believing that it would not pierce the windows.

However, that being said, im not opposed to having weapons on aircraft in defense of the cockpit. It certainly would have prevented Sept. 11. I was actually surprised at the time to find out it had happened, since I had thought it was standard practise for sky marshals to be on board aircraft in the US. I learned later that this was the case for a while, but the program was later canceled for some reason.

To ensure that the gun does not get into the wrong hands though, it should be in the cockpit with the pilot(s), so that they have control over the situation.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

While it may be a political “hot Potato” I’m sure that the Brits will come around on this one. The economies of the EU can ill afford the resurgent tourism business to become the next fatality in the “war on Terror”.

Perhaps a non-lethal alternative such as the ‘Tazer” is an option worth exploring; unfortunately, it doesn’t offer much in the way of follow-on firepower should the first shot miss, or in the case of multiple targets. I would expect that the Brits, who have been so often victimized by terrorism would be a bit more understanding.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

The windows are made of polycarbonate, and polycarbonate is more bullet resistant than aluminum. .
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

So the EU will fold kind of like how they did with that steel tarif thing eh?

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

Simple fact: America and the American market are the most lucrative in the world and every nation wants a piece of the America Pie (with apologies to Don MacLean). Europe would feel far more harm in a tourism trade war than would we.

The Tariffs were dropped because we were about to lose a court case, not through any show of solidarity by the Europeans.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

Dude, seriously; you gotta wake up and start seeing things through the world's eye's and not just red white and blue American glasses. That court case was being decided because of the EU. Not only was it wrong, but the EU was about to start boycotting the U.S.

And yes, they could do it. Their combined economy can compete with ours. If we make them too angry, we'll pay for it.

Cheers


John herreshoff
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

When I was in Europe I didn’t see much in the way of enlightened thought. I have no use for anything that comes out of Europe, so I can live without them. Europe is the past, America is the present and Asia is the future. For now, I’ll reside in the present.

I’ll bet (a beer) the EU will dissolve within ten to fifteen years, and all of Europe will descend upon the world economy like individual parasites looking for their next meal.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

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I’ll bet (a beer) the EU will dissolve within ten to fifteen years, and all of Europe will descend upon the world economy like individual parasites looking for their next meal.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll take that bet.
Put it in your calendar fifteen years from now.

Yea! Free beer! (for me, not you!)
grin.gif
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

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That's fine with me. But at the same time if your flight happens to be the one that gets hijacked next, well, you know the rest of the story...

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Let's get serious here. How many airplanes have sky marshalls on them? Unless you're flying out of National, not too many. And how many airplanes have been hijacked since September 11? Not one.

Al Qaeda and its ilk are not stupid. If they were, we'd have found them and killed them all a long time ago. They know that hijacking an airplane is highly unlikely due to the new reinforced cockpit, and likely passenger attitudes.

Well, so what do you think they'll do? Go and try to achieve something that's unlikely? Or go and try to do something that would wreak real havoc that can be achieved? If you're a terrorist, are you going to try to take out an airplane with all the security associated with it now? Or are you just going to drive a SUV packed with explosives into the Holland Tunnel in the middle of rush hour and blow it up?
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

There have been several occasions in which a gun has been discharged on board a Boeing aircraft inflight. On NONE of those occasions has a crash occured.

I am a HUGE advocate of the FFDO program. This may sound harsh, but I would rather have the (tragic and unfortunate) scenario of an armed pilot killing a hijacker and accidentally injuring/killing an innocent passenger too, than to have the hijacker get access to the flight deck, and kill everyone on board, and maybe more on the ground.

The FFDO program is meant to be a last line of defense. We're not talking about gun-wielding untrained yahoos romping about the cabin at will saying "Respect My Authoritay!" These will be trained professionals acting accordingly.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

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I say if the foreign airlines don't want to take responsibility for the security of their flights, to hell with them. As anti-gun as the British are, it doesn't surprise me at all that British Airways flights would be cancelled for the reason mentioned in the article.

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Gun culture in the UK is very different then that in the US. As you will note very few of our policeman are armed, and utilize more none-weathel weapons. I am certain BALPA and the UK government will come to some agreement, however I believe you can have safe skys without weapons aboard.

But the last thing you want is a pissing match - as that will just get ugly!
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

[ QUOTE ]
Let's get serious here. How many airplanes have sky marshalls on them? Unless you're flying out of National, not too many.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta wait for the book!
smile.gif
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

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Al Qaeda and its ilk are not stupid. If they were, we'd have found them and killed them all a long time ago. They know that hijacking an airplane is highly unlikely due to the new reinforced cockpit, and likely passenger attitudes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed! September 11th was for all intents and purposes a one-time deal. With the current attitude among travelers the number of terrorist on board to effectively pull off such a plan would need to be so large as to make it unlikely that the terrorists would clear security. Just think, twenty 18 to 30 year old men of Middle Eastern heritage with little or no checked baggage . . . You can’t gain control of the flight deck if the passengers beat you to death before you get to first class.

I’m more concerned about the threat posed from shoulder-launched missiles than an active attempt to take over the AC. There is a threat from foreign carriers, but I would think that would be mostly in the form of infiltration into the Air Crew.

September 11th changed the rules for hijackers; travelers will never go without a fight in this new age of air travel.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

I really don't want to distribute semi-sensitive information, but listening to some people 'in the know', the latest/greatest threat aren't necessarily the garden variety of typical extremists, there are quite a few al Quada operatives from former Eastern Bloc nations that you'd never suspect.

These people are not dumb.
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

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And these flight delays and cancellations are complete trash, too. One of the people who the Bush administration accused of being a terrorist was a child!


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Yeah I loved it when *the Bush administration* did that. What were they thinking. I'm glad that *the Bush administration* made the decision to single out that child and didn't leave it up to the several NON PARTISAN intelligence agencies. *the Bush administration* is a stupid individual.

Pure gold Tony....pure gold!!!
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

Im with you lizard king
 
Re: The \"Rest of the Story\" behind the British Airways flight cancellations...

Uh, seeing how the buck's supposed to stop with the President, and seeing how he has oversight over the "intelligence" agencies...
 
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