The Piper Aztec

KLB

Well-Known Member
I got an oppurtunity to do some flight instructing in one of my student's dad piper aztec. Can anyone tell me of anything special about the aircraft. No No's, nasty tendencies, etc......
I flew it some yesterday and it seems like a whole lot of airplane compared to what I've been flying lately. It surely will take some getting used to.

BTW any of you guys got any experience with the Garmin 530
 
The 530 is good stuff!!
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BTW any of you guys got any experience with the Garmin 530

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Lots... Any specific questions?
 
I cant quite remember the exact model. It has 250hp fuel injected engines. I haven't experienced it yet. But he's also having problems with hot starts.

Does the Garmin 530 have a com built into it. Because this guy only had 1 com/nav.

I shot a GPS approach with it and I guess there is no way to slave one of the CDI's to the GPS or else I just couldn't get to work. I think he had some equipment issues that need to be worked out.

I also couldn't figure out how to get the GPS overlay for an ILS approach I shot.


I'll probably get all the bugs worked out on the next flight. I didn't get a lot of time on the ground to figure out a lot of stuff. We pretty much covered almost 80 miles and shot two approaches at two different airports in a little over half an hour.

How similar is the Garmin 530 to KLN GPS's?
 
I did all my multi training in an Aztec and I'll be instructing in it as soon as I get off my butt and finish the MEI. Ours is an F model with a 530. The F model has a larger tail with probes sticking off the stabilator, so it's easy to pick out.

They are friggin' sweet. Excellent handling characteristics on one engine. It's definately a step up from a duchess or a seminole, but they are so forgiving that it isn't a dangerous step. Basically, these things handle like a Kingair or other big airplane. No counter-rotating props, no accumulators.

Couple of things to look out for:
1. The fuel selector isn't always "ON" just because you put it in the slot. Always check the fuel gauge after moving the lever to make sure you got it.
2. It can be very nose-heavy, especially with only two people in it. It takes a lot of control pressure and trim sometimes.

The good stuff?
1. Aztrucks rule
2. you can put 6 people in it with their bags and it will still perform well.
3. For a powerful conventional twin, the Vmc is very gentle. Nothing like a baron or a 310.
4. You can pump the gear and flaps up and down.
5. Old guys will come over to you on the ramp and say "I remember those, those things are friggin' sweet." At least that's how I'll say it when I'm old.
 
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5. Old guys will come over to you on the ramp and say "I remember those, those things are friggin' sweet." At least that's how I'll say it when I'm old.

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Loved the Aztec. From a charter pilot's perspective it was perfect, because you could load it up and still be safe and maybe even keep your certificate if you got ramp checked. We had a waiver for low viz takeoffs and had to demonstrate an engine out, while under the hood, just after lift-off. Both us and the FAA would only do it in the Aztec.
 
250hp fuel injected... maybe a C model?

For hot starts in it I've had good luck with mix and throttles full, pumps on. Then put the throttle full and mix at cutoff, crank the engine as you SLOWLY bring the throttle back. When it fires just pull the throttle back and the mix forwrad.

The ones I flew had a crank style trim in the overhead panel. Fun plane overall. Very old school
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Nothing specific to watch out for, same thing as any twin... Oh yeah - you can't bring flaps and gear up at the same time because both are hydraulic and fed off the same pump. (gear has priority if you were to try)
 
I am suppose to do instrument work with him for now and start instructing his son in it for his private multi add-on after I finish up his private. I don't think we will be doing the add on in the Aztec because I don't have any toe brakes.

Just imagine taking a private pilot, who hasn't flown anything but a 152, and putting behind the yoke of an Aztec.
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Does he know how to slow down?
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The ones we had did not have toe brakes on the right side either... not my favorite thing to instruct in, but given the opportunity I would jump on it. Just about anything he will try to kill you on will be inflight where you have controls.
 
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Does he know how to slow down?
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Yes, but sometimes it takes time for his mind to register instructions given.

Let me illustrate the instructor/student exchange during a typical lesson.

Me: right rudder
Me: Right Rudder
Me: RIGHT RUDDER
Five seconds later.........
Him: Oh OK


Me: Go Around
Me: Go AROUND
Me yelling: GO AROUND GO AROUND GO AROUND
Him: Ok
......And three seconds later after we've bounced down the runway a couple of times, he finally goes around.

I have to admit that he is getting a lot better. He will probably going on his initial solo next lesson.
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The one I fly is an old trainer from some airline (I think PSA), so it has full dual instrumentation and toe brakes. I'll see if I can scrounge up a picture of the panel, it's pretty cool.
 
Yeah it is a pretty interesting aircraft. It has all of the bells and whistles. It has autopilot and the left controls has electric trim etc...... Of course I'm break dancing on final, in the right seat, triming the plane up with the overhead trim and going through the rest of the pre-landing flow. And the Airspeed Indicator is in MPH of course. I'm kind of getting used to that because I've been flying a 67 Cherokee for a while now. It is also very roomy. Almost to roomy. I have really to stretch to reach anything on the left side of the instrument panel and I am pretty long limbed.

I still have to buy a POH and a checklist for it.

Do you guys ever kill the critical engine on students?
 
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Do you guys ever kill the critical engine on students?

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I always shut the left one down during my training. My instructor wanted me to get used to having to pump the gear down all under my own power. Even when the left is windmilling, it still turns the hydraulic pump enough to drastically reduce the number of pumps you have to do. (This only had one pump, I'm assuming yours is the same)
 
I don't know yet. All I pretty much did Saturday was teach the guy how to set up the GPS approach in the Garmin 530. I didn't have a lot of time to read over any of the systems. The flight was pretty much coincidental. I was suppose to just go over there and check out the aircraft and play with the GPS. But the guy was like "Hey you want to go fly?"

Does the Garmin 530 also serve as a COM/NAV?
 
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I don't know yet. All I pretty much did Saturday was teach the guy how to set up the GPS approach in the Garmin 530. I didn't have a lot of time to read over any of the systems. The flight was pretty much coincidental. I was suppose to just go over there and check out the aircraft and play with the GPS. But the guy was like "Hey you want to go fly?"

Does the Garmin 530 also serve as a COM/NAV?

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They also make a 500 which is the same as a 530 without the nav/com.

You mentioned it not being able to couple. I believe that for any GPS to be IFR certified, it has to be coupled with at least one CDI/HSI. If this guy has it coupled, just make sure you're in GPS mode (not VLOC) by hitting the CDI button on the lower left.

To load an approach, push the the PROC button on the bottom right side of the screen. Go to select approach, make sure the airport you want is in the top (if it isn't, make sure it's highlighted then twist the small knob). Change the airport then select the appropriate approach and either hit load or activate. If you're getting vectors, I always activate right away. I load the approach if ATC hasn't cleared me to my IAF yet.

Hope this isn't too confusing.
 
Thanks for the info.

I pretty much know how to set an approach in the Garmin 530. It's pretty much the same as in any other GPS. I figured that there was a COM/NAV in the GPS.

He has a switch that changes it from nav to GPS but I had a little trouble with switch.

I'll get it figured out. I more worried about getting those systems learned while working than actually setting up the GPS.

Thanx again.
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I've got about 500 hours in an E model - some notable items:

1. The overhead trim crank will drive you nuts for the first XX number of hours until you really get used to it and can trim without thinking or without trial-and-error cranking.

2. The first notch of flap will cause a big pitch change - after a number of hours you will learn to anticipate the change and make smooth control inputs to counteract it.

3. Does your Aztec have dual hydraulic pumps? If not, that royally sucks; if you lose your only pump on the wrong engine, you are left with the really crappy prospect of hand-pumping the gear up on takeoff/climbout (the planes were originally certified with one pump, on one engine, can't remember which side).

4. I agree with the nose-heavy comment, especially when you have 2 people up front, at least in the one I flew. Run some W/B loading scenarios to see what you're dealing with.

5. It's never happened to me, but I've heard second-hand incidents of the door opening up in flight (when it wasn't latched securely) and resulting control difficulty and problems holding altitude.

6. MOST IMPORTANTLY, you need to have a fuel management routine for flying this plane, especially if you are used to a simple fuel system that doesn't need tank-switching. If you are doing short hops, the fuel mangement won't be a big deal but for longer flights you will need to be doing some timing, switching tanks, and monitoring burns. If you have tip tanks, that will add a little complexity (i.e. if I remember right, the outboard fuel gauges measure the outboard tank and the tip, but only when the tip has a certain amount of fuel, and there if some fuel-ciphoning peculiarities involved between the tip and the main tank, too...it's all in the AFM supplement so it's good to review this carefully if your plane is so equpped). Don't forget that the center position on the fuel selector is OFF!

My setup for fuel management was this: I kept two count-up digital timers on the yoke, one for the outboards and one for the inboards. I would start and stop the applicable timer depending on what tank I was using, thereby keeping a running tab of the time used out of each tank. I think I ran on the inboards for one hour, the outboards for another hour, then back to the inboards for 30-40 minutes, then outboards for 30-40 minutes. That left me with about 45 minutes of reserve. At the height of my Aztec flying, I had exact fuel burns and timing nailed down pat.

I don't have anything to add about the Garmin 530 that hasn't been said already or that isn't common sense, except a gentle reminder: make sure that you guys know your way around the box in good VFR before trying things in actual IMC.
 
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