The Pilot Shortage -Managements Fault?

[n57flyguy]

I stumbled across another article discussing the pilot shortage and another theory of why America has less pilots in general, and less deciding to make it into a career. The main premise - lack of respect from management/CEO's and their answer of using more 'discipline' in operations, as a misnomer almost.

I am not in the airline industry, and while just this narrow scope of an article, an opinion, a vent (while warrant is believable), and a theory is their a majority of opinion at airlines that there is a high level of disrespect from management in regards to a pilots well being? Conversely, its management and executive decisions something line pilots just do not understand as laymen to the weights of executive officers?

However, read any electronic pilot posting board, where free speech rules and anonymity pulls down the fear of speaking out, and you can see and feel a palpable change in pride for the industry. They are often ashamed of what it has become and what their leaders ask of them. They are ashamed that the “product” they deliver, their passengers, are being charged for a can of Coke while their CEO makes $17.4 million. Pilots understand profit margins, so they have to caveat recommending this industry to new pilots. The next pilot generation is losing the exuberance of its mentors because aviation is currently filled with cynicism, uncertainty and extraordinary expense to family and friends.

I asked the above questions because in regards to airlines where does the line cross between being a good employee and no longer tolerating being treated poorly? If this article (understood as opinion) is on to a correct assumption of palpable change felt through message boards where shame is felt on what is asked of line pilots by management, how is it the pilots responsibility or actual reckoning of decisions to charge for amenities? Is it true that the only way airline pilots are going to recommend this career is for profit margins?

but as the years passed and the industry evolved into “discipline” mentality, rather than respect, then a new attitude entered all of our perspectives. For example, it’s more beneficial for me and my crew to have a little longer flight, so let’s just take on a little extra fuel and fly at the altitude which burns more fuel and takes longer because we get paid a little more. Let’s ride the brakes to earn a few more minutes while we wear away the brake pads. Why hold the airplane for connecting passengers when it’s our last leg and we all have to commute home. My crew wants to catch their flights home too, so why should I care about the passenger who will miss the connection.

I guess it is a shame that this is what mentality and attitude has been forced by management to shift the ideology around from customer satisfaction, care, and safety to no longer caring about the passengers needs. At the end of the day, with out them there would cease to be a need - so is it fair that costing the company extra and inevitably forcing that back on the consumer a way to remedy the situations? It seems to be a vicious cycle that is polarized, however what choices to the pilots have?

https://disciplesofflight.com/pilot-shortage-where-did-pilots-go/

 

[Inverted]

I experienced this at the 135 freight company I was at, to a lesser degree though. I have heard many stories like this though.

 

[n57flyguy]

I experienced this at the 135 freight company I was at, to a lesser degree though. I have heard many stories like this though.

To what reference?

 

[Blackhawk]

No, it's everyone's fault. Blaming it on management is a cop out.
Much of the depressed wages are associated with FFDs. After deregulation FFDs were formed as majors pulled large equipment out of thin/negative margin cities. It made no sense for DAL to fly a 737 from ATL to CSG. All the majors at that point had already gotten rid of their turboprops and the mainline pilots surely did not want to fly them again. So the short hop flying was farmed out to regionals.
Eventually, regionals started flying smaller jets as well. Pax did not like the turboprops even though they make economic sense on many short-haul routes. Again, mainline pilots were fine with this and gave a scope exemption. After all, who wants to fly a "Barbie jet". They aren't real airplanes.
Fast forward. Majors realized they could keep costs down by having regional airlines compete against each other. Regional management was put in a bind. They had to keep costs low in order to compete and make money off of the FFD contracts. So they came up with something to compensate for a good pay package- "upgrade time".
We regional pilots lapped- and still are lapping- up the "upgrade time" carrot. After all, who cares about a 15-year captain rate, a 8 year FO rate and a 401(k) when you won't be at a company over five years? I'll just suck it up for a few years then move on to the 777 at XYZ airline. So we signed crappy contracts though to be fare we sometimes got crappy contracts shoved down our throats during chapter 11.
The age 65 rule and economic down turn brought stagnation. Those pilots who were looking at an 8 year time frame to make it to the majors suddenly found themselves as 8-year FO's... with no 8 year pay rate. Oops.
Potential pilots and pilots looked at this and scratched their heads. Government economic policies have resulted in inflation. That 152 that I rented for $15/hour is now going for $80/hour. College tuition has far outstripped inflation- heck, it's been far more than medical. So potential pilots were looking at $100K+ loans for a job that started out at $20k with little movement. People chose not to go into aviation. With no students, flight schools closed. As flight schools closed CFI's found it hard to get work. Many dropped out of aviation, going into other fields.
Now we have the 1500 hour rule and the bubble of age 65 "baby boom" generation is retiring. The latter means airlines need pilots, the former means they can no longer count on finding 250 hour wonder pilots in gutters outside flight schools. The above means there aren't even as many flight schools around.
As legacy carriers watch FFDs having to cancel flights due to a lack of crews they are reaping what all of us have sown.

As for some of your quotes, I go back to what a wise CW4 told me when I was a young LT working for a really, really bad commander. "Lt, don't let others define who and what you are. Just because others are incompetent, jerks (he used a different word), or even corrupt it does not mean you have to be that way as well. Keep doing your best in spite of the CO." I'm imperfect, but I've tried hard to live up to what he told me.
I've seen really bad airline management and I've seen really good airline management. The people in the back rely on me either way to get them safely from point A to point B as close to schedule as I safely can. Those people in the back aren't just seat numbers. There is the salesman trying to get to Witchita to make a sale so he can pay his mortgage. The soldier trying to get home on R&R to see his child for the first time. The lady trying to get home before her mother in hospice dies. Again, I won't let others define who I am. I still care about those people trying to get where they need to go for whatever reason and I will help them as best I can.

 

[TWP]

Imagine if we lived in a world where companies weren't constantly trying to get away with paying you as little as possible because "well bro, all is fair in capitalism" and instead actually worked as a team, considering every employee a valued member. They love to talk about being a team all the time, some even go as far as calling employees part of the " ___________ family", but I gotta tell ya folks, I wouldn't give my brother as little as possible just because I could get away with it.

This article mentioned managements heavy use of the "discipline" propaganda. What it really means is they are mildly annoyed with the fact that employees are asking for their fair share.

Discipline....like taking home a couple mil a year while some of your employees make ramen noodle wages. Discipline...like using threat tactics to get employees to vote for even less even during periods of high profitablility. Discipline...like coming up with cheap schemes to squeeze extra dollars out of your customers.

Imagine, if for once, the leaders of these companies were actually proud of the team and treated them in such a way, instead of running things like a pyramid scheme.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

No, it's everyone's fault. Blaming it on management is a cop out.
Much of the depressed wages are associated with FFDs. After deregulation FFDs were formed as majors pulled large equipment out of thin/negative margin cities. It made no sense for DAL to fly a 737 from ATL to CSG. All the majors at that point had already gotten rid of their turboprops and the mainline pilots surely did not want to fly them again. So the short hop flying was farmed out to regionals.
Eventually, regionals started flying smaller jets as well. Pax did not like the turboprops even though they make economic sense on many short-haul routes. Again, mainline pilots were fine with this and gave a scope exemption. After all, who wants to fly a "Barbie jet". They aren't real airplanes.
Fast forward. Majors realized they could keep costs down by having regional airlines compete against each other. Regional management was put in a bind. They had to keep costs low in order to compete and make money off of the FFD contracts. So they came up with something to compensate for a good pay package- "upgrade time".
We regional pilots lapped- and still are lapping- up the "upgrade time" carrot. After all, who cares about a 15-year captain rate, a 8 year FO rate and a 401(k) when you won't be at a company over five years? I'll just suck it up for a few years then move on to the 777 at XYZ airline. So we signed crappy contracts though to be fare we sometimes got crappy contracts shoved down our throats during chapter 11.
The age 65 rule and economic down turn brought stagnation. Those pilots who were looking at an 8 year time frame to make it to the majors suddenly found themselves as 8-year FO's... with no 8 year pay rate. Oops.
Potential pilots and pilots looked at this and scratched their heads. Government economic policies have resulted in inflation. That 152 that I rented for $15/hour is now going for $80/hour. College tuition has far outstripped inflation- heck, it's been far more than medical. So potential pilots were looking at $100K+ loans for a job that started out at $20k with little movement. People chose not to go into aviation. With no students, flight schools closed. As flight schools closed CFI's found it hard to get work. Many dropped out of aviation, going into other fields.
Now we have the 1500 hour rule and the bubble of age 65 "baby boom" generation is retiring. The latter means airlines need pilots, the former means they can no longer count on finding 250 hour wonder pilots in gutters outside flight schools. The above means there aren't even as many flight schools around.
As legacy carriers watch FFDs having to cancel flights due to a lack of crews they are reaping what all of us have sown.

It really is everyone's fault:

- "We don't want that little airplane!" (You absolutely do. If management wants to operate a SouthernJets Innanashunul Connection-branded Frisbee between Atlanta and Macon, you want an SJI pilot at the controls.)
- "I don't care, I'll be here for (arbitrarily short amount of time) and then I'll get my major job." Not necessarily; it's not that easy, simple, cut/dried for the majority of most regional pilot groups. (And, of course, in the meantime, you have to work here, so you might as well care about where you "live" right now. This mentality borders on the toxic.)
- The consumer cares much more about price than they do about almost anything else, possibly including their own safety. (Look at Allegiant's inflight shutdown rate, for instance, and then consider that Allegiant are making money.)
- Markets are interesting devices that don't always generate perfect outcomes; they tend to ignore social consequences.
- The inflation of higher education costs is just ludicrous. So is spending a Stanford education's worth of money on a flying degree, or turning an 18-year-old loose with a quarter million dollars of loan debt. It sucks, really, that higher education has become as prohibitively expensive as it is and both private and public institutions should take a good, hard look at their costs and ask "what am I doing to create value here?". It's no longer an instrument of social mobility if you get out with crushing debt.

That said, none of this is really any different from any other industry, and the view is a hell of a lot better. The squeeze that is being put on the American middle class is playing out in aviation, just like everywhere else.

 

[NickH]

It's the nature of business in the US. Customer Care and Safety are quickly disregarded when it hurts revenue. It's getting worse now because being short staffed forces the issue. I'd like to think that the companies that value their employees will retain them and be more successful in this scenario, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Blackhawk]

Again, at the regional level we have helped to reap what we've helped to sow. Management at FFDs have no choice but to respond to market forces. FFDs must compete against each other for what little flying and revenue legacies grudgingly give them. Legacy pilots talk a good talk, but I don't hear any of them saying they want the current profits to go toward larger FFD contracts so regional FO's don't start at $20k/year. Regional pilots give up pay for quick upgrades, while their management likes this model as it keeps costs low. Things are cheaper when you don't have 15+ year captains.
Then we all sit in a circle and point to the next guy- it's his/her fault. Heaven forbid anyone take responsibility and say yeah, I played a part in this.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Again, at the regional level we have helped to reap what we've helped to sow. Management at FFDs have no choice but to respond to market forces. FFDs must compete against each other for what little flying and revenue legacies grudgingly give them. Legacy pilots talk a good talk, but I don't hear any of them saying they want the current profits to go toward larger FFD contracts so regional FO's don't start at $20k/year. Regional pilots give up pay for quick upgrades, while their management likes this model as it keeps costs low. Things are cheaper when you don't have 15+ year captains.
Then we all sit in a circle and point to the next guy- it's his/her fault. Heaven forbid anyone take responsibility and say yeah, I played a part in this.

I did.

I showed up to fly the Brasilia at $22,000 a year.

(There. That wasn't so hard. Who's next?)

 

[Beep]

I'll go next,
I'm leaving my job in the near future to make approximately 22K a year at a regional.

 

[ozziecat35]

I see-saw on this...I was the shiny eyed, SJS infected kid back in 2006 when I got out of the Army at the ripe old age of 22 after doing my 4 years. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have not gotten married just then, and done my flight training while I could afford to live on Ramen, then gotten in with the other load of 250 hour wet commercials that everyone was hiring. Now however, I have 2 little mouths to feed, and have a very stable salary that blows even a 3rd or 4th year FFD FO's pay out of the water. Yet I still have the yearning to fly 121.

Life situation what it is now, I literally cannot afford to go fly 121 regional stuff. Hell, I make more doing aerial survey then a 2nd year FO per hour for a p/t gig...kind of a golden handcuffs problem.

That said, it will be interesting to see what happens with FFD carriers when there are no more bodies that have the 1500 hours. Yet more carve outs? Pay doesn't seem to be improving, not much left after that.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I've never left a job for one without a better pay scale. Even my first flying job paid a living wage. I refuse to be treated like garbage and I speak up when mistreated.

I've also never flown 121, primarily due to working conditions.

 

[Blackhawk]

Again, pay can't improve that much while FFDs have to compete for the flying. It will go up, but not the Where are you? legacy carriers will improve.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Judging by what I've heard of the Delta TA, it sounds like Big D, at least, would rather keep the FFDs on life support than allow the whipsaw machine to be disassembled.

 

[ctab5060X]

Judging by what I've heard of the Delta TA, it sounds like Big D, at least, would rather keep the FFDs on life support than allow the whipsaw machine to be disassembled.

Wish we could just pull the plug and let the FFD carriers cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees.

 

[Stone Cold]

Wish we could just pull the plug and let the FFD carriers cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees.

There's a Delta CRJ, I believe it was in Tyumen, doing exactly that. I'll have to look for the picture tomorrow if I remember.

 

[ctab5060X]

Again, at the regional level we have helped to reap what we've helped to sow. Management at FFDs have no choice but to respond to market forces. FFDs must compete against each other for what little flying and revenue legacies grudgingly give them. Legacy pilots talk a good talk, but I don't hear any of them saying they want the current profits to go toward larger FFD contracts so regional FO's don't start at $20k/year. Regional pilots give up pay for quick upgrades, while their management likes this model as it keeps costs low. Things are cheaper when you don't have 15+ year captains.
Then we all sit in a circle and point to the next guy- it's his/her fault. Heaven forbid anyone take responsibility and say yeah, I played a part in this.

I'd be all for an increase in the FFD contracts IF the increase came from the profits garnered for mainline by the FFD carriers.

I'm not talking about an individual FFD carrier making a corporate profit, but rather the FFD carrier not costing the mainline carrier simply by operating on a daily basis.

From the numbers I have seen, regional operations cost AAG in the neighborhood of 40-50 million per year. Hard to want to simply throw money away.

I'd rather give the FOs a raise by having them (and the flying) at mainline.

 

[Blackhawk]

FFDs will go away when legacy carriers no longer feel it is in their economical interest to use them.

 

[Blackhawk]

I'd be all for an increase in the FFD contracts IF the increase came from the profits garnered for mainline by the FFD carriers.

I'm not talking about an individual FFD carrier making a corporate profit, but rather the FFD carrier not costing the mainline carrier simply by operating on a daily basis.

From the numbers I have seen, regional operations cost AAG in the neighborhood of 40-50 million per year. Hard to want to simply throw money away.

I'd rather give the FOs a raise by having them (and the flying) at mainline.

May cost AAG that much but I'm fairly sure they get a pretty good ROI from the feed.
Nothing anyone says here will change any of it. Won't change unless it is in the economic interest of legacies for it to change.

 

[Max Power]

The old saw that " You can't get a job without experience but you need experience to get a job" was (is?) more true in aviation perhaps than elsewhere.

" You need time and "quality" time at that to get a job."

(Hmmm. Well, instructing(or whatever) isn't "quality" time(even before the 1500 hr rule) and most of the time the money sucks, but at least at XYZ regional, I'll build "quality" time and be able to move on eventually. Yeah, XYZ is awful and the scourge of everyone not at XYZ, but no one else is calling me, so I'll go with them. If XYS calls, maybe I'll leave.)

(Man, I'm close to upgrade at XYZ, but XYS just called. It's a better deal but I'm so close to upgrade. Nah, I'll stay here. No lateral moves!)

Aviation Job Money Taker and/or Company I'd Like to Work For:" Well, you look OK, but you don't have much xxxx time, so thanks but no."
(Internal monologue: Damn, if I'd gone to XYS, I could have gotten that time)

Nobody saw the stagnation of the economy, the consolidation of the carriers ( both regional and legacies) 9/11 or anything else. I won't doubt we as a professional group caused some of our own pain. But the handing over of everything to the MBA CEO's with only the shareholders and this quarters profit in mind hasn't exactly been a plus for any business, let alone aviation.

And I think we are seeing the end of FFD regionals right now, unless there is a drastic change in pay. Especially the small players.