The "NO PAY" job offer

M

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
Reading climbto350.com there was a company offering to allow a CMEL pilot to sit right seat, log 800 hours of twin turbine, and all for $0. Well, not quite $0. The cost is $3500 up front for your training and checkride. Than after you work for a year get your 800 turbine SIC you get your $3500 back.

COOL HUH :sarcasm:

The sad part is that some new academy grad will take this option in a heartbeat.

Now, would you consider this PFT or PFJ?
 
Well, this is a crappy gig no doubt. A training contract for a gig that doesn't pay.

But it will be legit time that you can log 'cause it sounds like you have to take a 135 SIC checkride.

Oh and I'd call it PFJ no doubt.
 
Actually, thats not a bad deal depending on how long it would take. Think about the cost vs the hours. Dam,I would definitely take it.
 
Not to play devil's advocate but if you are technically not paying for the job as you are reimbursed at the end of your contract, how is this PFJ? I think its QPFJ = Quasi PFJ.
 
meritflyer said:
Not to play devil's advocate but if you are technically not paying for the job as you are reimbursed at the end of your contract, how is this PFJ? I think its QPFJ = Quasi PFJ.
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You're telling me a company operating a large multi turbine a/c CAN'T AFFORD to fund $3,500 in training costs? Isn't that the cost of doing business? This $%#@ pisses me off more and more these days...

~wheelsup

EDIT: Another thing - it's not QPFJ because it's not a job if you AREN'T GETTING PAID!?!
 
Well, this post might end up in the lav. :) You are talking about your work for nothing...really. They could have hire someone and pay for their training. Try to think about this one - You work for McDonald. Before you work for them, you have to pay them 3500 dollar. When you finish your job, you got nothing, not even free french fries. Not to memtion you have to try to drive there and might pay for your own uniform. Only thing you got from them is what you can put down on your resume. I have worked at McDonald for 800 hours. I believe someone on the other side of interview board might have problem with that.


adreamer
 
Anytime there should be somebody being paid in the seat you're in, and you're not being paid (or you're paying) it's PFJ.
 
What is the difference between doing this and the new ATP program or others like it? I guess you could say that you are taking a seat in the cockpit that should be occupied by a pilot that is being paid to sit there thus driving the industry down. I think it depends on the person who takes the job. If someone with a wet CMEL certificate and 250 hrs takes it, then you can say it is free training?

If that was really all it was was flying, and no BS paperwork/hey do this busy work for us too, I don't think I could blame someone for taking this opportunity and turning it into a regional job after a year. It would have to be close to home and no overnights, and the hours would have to be conducive to me being able to have a part time job of some sort.

How would this job look on your resume in the eyes of your favorite regional's HR department? You may just be limited to applying at GoJets then...
 
What if the company normally does single-pilot IFR? Then there wouldnt be a "required" second pilot. Seems like an internship or something.
 
John Herreshoff said:
Read up on your 135 regs
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What specifically did you want him to read up on?

I do believe the Metroliner is a single pilot airplane, so the SIC isn't taking anyone's job away. I definitely don't agree with this practice but if people want to pay for this crap, it's their loss.

On a side note, there is a place in Fargo that does this too, but you have to pay $8500 to do it, and of course it's unpaid. I believe they're flying C90's.
 
There is one at Jeffco here in Denver that you can fly a Navaho with pax from Jeffco to various Wyoming towns. I think you have to pay like $30 an hour or something though and you can only do like 100 hr blocks or something crazy.

I wouldnt mind doing it once or twice just to be able to fly something new but in general, if I am flying something and I can't go off and do some sightseeing where I want to sightsee and then take some pictures, then I will be getting paid for it.
 
I think FAA change that metro to 2 pilots operation, if my memory serve me corret. However, where can you find this kind of info?
 
Amflight does fly Metros singe pilot under 135. You can buy time in the right seat if you want. I don't see it as PFJ since you aren't a required crewmember. Not sure how much good it's gonna really do you, though. An interviewer knows what's going on. I guess you're taking your chances that they don't have a problem with it....
 
John Herreshoff said:
Most ops spec will read that you have to have a second pilot and you can use an autopilot in leu of
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There is a special provision that excludes cargo. I know this because Alpine Air doesn't have autopilots installed in many of its airplanes and they're flown single pilot all the time.
 
This company ought to approach some aviation university and offer it to their students. That way, it is not PFT or PFJ, it is an internship.
 
Same way as all the other companies out there doing this...we don't have to have a SIC, but can have one according to our ops specs. The difference is we PAY our SIC's.
 
Right, that's what I thought; then how can you have a provision that calls for having no SIC and no autopilot, but still have Airnet have an SIC program? It seems mutually exclusive.
 
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