The Great Jumpseat War of 2019

SKYW, RAH, and Mesa pilots, since there is no dispute with AAL and DAL, what is UAL doing differently in their agreement?
 
It sounds like:

- UAL is basically crafting it’s policy in some sort of industry standard

- SAPA is misinterpreting the FAA’s interest in their squabble and picked a bizarre and befuddling “hill to die on”

It’s ok to press the pause button, work it out behind closed doors with UAL and do a more effective job communicating with the pilot group. I do think SAPA has done harm to the pilot group on an easily solvable situation.
 
Roger Roger said:
I mean, if we’re telling people to disregard FOM guidance on JS priority, why should they listen re: attire?
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I mean, fair point.

I wonder, truly, how many people this is actually going to affect on a daily basis.

I also think (mind you, this is pure opinion) that there are better enforcement actions to undertake—perhaps ones that come numerically earlier, say, Part 117. Though I am not a Fed nor am I ever likely to be one.

Derg said:
- SAPA is misinterpreting the FAA’s interest in their squabble and picked a bizarre and befuddling “hill to die on”
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I went and read 121.547 again, and it made me wonder, briefly, if anyone else had; the interest would be severely limited at best. Also, see above.

BigZ said:
ESL here, what's fetch? (Other than the obvious)
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Your homework, should you choose to do it (and you should) is to watch Mean Girls.
 
Derg said:
He doesn’t even GO here. :)
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Not anymore.
116CCBA4-C59C-4654-B6E1-4B79C27F57A1.jpeg
 
Derg said:
It sounds like:

- UAL is basically crafting it’s policy in some sort of industry standard

- SAPA is misinterpreting the FAA’s interest in their squabble and picked a bizarre and befuddling “hill to die on”

It’s ok to press the pause button, work it out behind closed doors with UAL and do a more effective job communicating with the pilot group. I do think SAPA has done harm to the pilot group on an easily solvable situation.
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When you get a fundamental disconnect between the "reps" and the pilots they represent, stuff like this happens. Then the "people" stand around with the "who farted" look on their faces.

They game they're playing at SkyWest gets tiresome, and I've seen it repeated a number of times. They're basically riding the coattails of the industry, and is the identical game that management plays with non-represented employee groups.
 
Derg said:
It sounds like:

- UAL is basically crafting it’s policy in some sort of industry standard

- SAPA is misinterpreting the FAA’s interest in their squabble and picked a bizarre and befuddling “hill to die on”

It’s ok to press the pause button, work it out behind closed doors with UAL and do a more effective job communicating with the pilot group. I do think SAPA has done harm to the pilot group on an easily solvable situation.
Click to expand...

Agree with the three points above. The question is how to get number three to happen (excluding the last sentence).

SAPA does not have a great track record of taking votes let alone respecting the results, so even if we got everyone in a room they may still stand on this hill. I don’t know.

As a line pilot, FO, what can I do? Well, my captain and I talked at length about whether we would be violating any FARs after the 15th barring any official changes to the FOM, etc. I think that convo has led to this captain coming to the conclusion that the answer is no so they won’t be leaving anyone behind.

I’ve talked to a fellow FO who was going to follow the guidance in the FAQ, and after our conversation is now going to defer to the captain if they let a JS on rather than fear getting his certificate threatened.

Also spoke at length to a UAL jumpseater on our flight deck on my first leg after all this was announced. He’s offered to buy me a beer next time he’s in my neighborhood so we can talk through all this at great length.

So basically as a line pilot, I feel like one on one conversations is what I can do to sway anything right now. Yes, I’ve messaged reps and expressed opinions in the groups but besides this, what can I do that would be more effective?

Not a rhetorical question.
 
BrettInLJ said:
Agree with the three points above. The question is how to get number three to happen (excluding the last sentence).

SAPA does not have a great track record of taking votes let alone respecting the results, so even if we got everyone in a room they may still stand on this hill. I don’t know.

As a line pilot, FO, what can I do? Well, my captain and I talked at length about whether we would be violating any FARs after the 15th barring any official changes to the FOM, etc. I think that convo has led to this captain coming to the conclusion that the answer is no so they won’t be leaving anyone behind.

I’ve talked to a fellow FO who was going to follow the guidance in the FAQ, and after our conversation is now going to defer to the captain if they let a JS on rather than fear getting his certificate threatened.

Also spoke at length to a UAL jumpseater on our flight deck on my first leg after all this was announced. He’s offered to buy me a beer next time he’s in my neighborhood so we can talk through all this at great length.

So basically as a line pilot, I feel like one on one conversations is what I can do to sway anything right now. Yes, I’ve messaged reps and expressed opinions in the groups but besides this, what can I do that would be more effective?

Not a rhetorical question.
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RIP the Fourth OC. :(
 
BrettInLJ said:
Agree with the three points above. The question is how to get number three to happen (excluding the last sentence).

SAPA does not have a great track record of taking votes let alone respecting the results, so even if we got everyone in a room they may still stand on this hill. I don’t know.

As a line pilot, FO, what can I do? Well, my captain and I talked at length about whether we would be violating any FARs after the 15th barring any official changes to the FOM, etc. I think that convo has led to this captain coming to the conclusion that the answer is no so they won’t be leaving anyone behind.

I’ve talked to a fellow FO who was going to follow the guidance in the FAQ, and after our conversation is now going to defer to the captain if they let a JS on rather than fear getting his certificate threatened.

Also spoke at length to a UAL jumpseater on our flight deck on my first leg after all this was announced. He’s offered to buy me a beer next time he’s in my neighborhood so we can talk through all this at great length.

So basically as a line pilot, I feel like one on one conversations is what I can do to sway anything right now. Yes, I’ve messaged reps and expressed opinions in the groups but besides this, what can I do that would be more effective?

Not a rhetorical question.
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Keep talking about it just like you’re doing.

Sadly, it sounds like SAPA went rogue and it’s tarnishing the name of a lot of great pilots because of some very loose language and a kindergarten-level assessment of the situation at hand. The more people talk about it, the more SAPA gets isolated and it will bring them back to clean up the language and get back on course.
 
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