The Emirates Strike Back

Richard Anderson gave a pretty straight-foward and, well, quite honest speech about the threat of SOCs unfettered entry into the US. I wish I could remember even 5% of it enough to speak about it, but tell you what, I'm throughly convinced we need to "Dutch it up" like they did at Schiphol.
 
Derg said:
Richard Anderson gave a pretty straight-foward and, well, quite honest speech about the threat of SOCs unfettered entry into the US. I wish I could remember even 5% of it enough to speak about it, but tell you what, I'm throughly convinced we need to "Dutch it up" like they did at Schiphol.
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The French, Germans, and Canadians also have done the same as well.
 
Seggy said:
Why should we be celebrating these new shiny jets coming to our cities when they gain an unfair advantage by the way they treat their work force? They are allowed to treat their work force because of the laws and customs of their country.

Also, I assure you. If Air China Southern wanted to flood the market in the United States like the ME3 want to do, the response would be the same.
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The way they treat their work force, hmmm. Seggy, I worked there. Did you? I made over $200,000/year with significant tax advantages as an expat making it really around $300,000/year equivalent; had 42 days of vacation/year; almost free health insurance for me and my family; unlimited first class travel; and some of the best training and career advancement chances ever possible in this industry. I have very little bad to say about the airline and how I was treated. I personally watched guys go out on medical for a year on full basic pay and numerous cases of guys on shorter 3-6 months medicals with the same. That's not in the contract they just do it. Maybe it has something to do with Sharia Law ;)

When my father had a massive stroke I had a firm jumpseat home the next day, ( unlike what your quoted article states ). Ended up in First Class, but the firm jumpseat guaranteed I would get on the airplane no matter what.

So just keep peddling your tripe. I'll be here to refute it.



Typhoonpilot
 
mshunter said:
I haven't seen him say anything that wasn't true, with no basis in actual fact. Sure, it may be a nice place to visit, for most people. But...
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Just like if you're an immigrant worker here in the US, it might not be an ideal work place. I'm not talking about the airlines, I'm talking about saying the women are in the sex trade. That is painting with a very broad brush.

Also with Sharia Law, it's like anywhere else. Obey the laws. There are laws here in the US that are ridiculous and religious based...I'm not saying there aren't some travesties of justice there, but that's everywhere.

I'm not saying it's roses and sunshine over there, but to say the women dressed like they were in Vegas were sex slaves and Sharia Law has everybody stoned to death is better left to the sensationalist journalists.
 
Seggy said:
I can make similar comparisons on how well Pilots at my place are treated.
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You're the one saying how deplorable the conditions are for workers over there. So, like I said earlier, you might want to do some more research and visit before spouting as gospel how bad it is over there.

As for the female crew members and their experiences, try having them go to Saudi Arabia, Iran, or some of the other places in the world. Dubai really is the most western style country over there. It's not perfect, I'm not defending how backwards some things are, but it could be a lot worse. Is it America? No. Know where you are and act accordingly.
 
Ultimately, I don't really care what the working conditions are, or what the backwardsass religious beliefs are. I care about unfair competition from a carrier that openly admits that it wants to flood the market with seats and become the new international carrier of choice from the United States. That's what this is about, and all of the other crap about Sharia law and such is just icing on the cake.
 
Working conditions, government support, blah, blah, blah...the fact is, Emirates (and Etihad & Qatar who are trying to take market share) have access to the real up and coming markets on this planet - China and India. The US companies have been merging and clamoring for the same basic group of customers, while Emirates has become "Indian airlines", shuttling people from the subcontinent around the world. Which companies from the US fly to India (the 2nd most populous country)? Answer: only United - they only go to Mumbai and Delhi...but thats like Lufthansa bragging they got America covered, with just JFK and LAX.

It's easy to lump the ME3 together, fact is, Qatar is a bunch of crazies and treat their pilots and FAs like crap. BUT the real threat for you guys (USA airline management) is Emirates. They sit in the middle of a gold rush, ready to grab market share wherever they can. for guys at majors they should sweat, their horse is the weakest in the race. If you are a pilot who is willing to take the best opportunity available, retire before 60, and be selfish...a middle east carrier may be your best option.

I was at a regional in the states and saw that companies (UA, DL, AA, US) make their money off of regional pilots working for crappy wages. If you are pro pilot and pro livable wage, there is no logic in you being against competition from the big scary foreign airlines. These companies employ many Americans and offer them a chance at career earnings that are only pipe dreams State-side.
 
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Skåning said:
Working conditions, government support, blah, blah, blah...the fact is, Emirates (and Etihad & Qatar who are trying to take market share) have access to the real up and coming markets on this planet - China and India. The US companies have been merging and clamoring for the same basic group of customers, while Emirates has become "Indian airlines", shuttling people from the subcontinent around the world. Which companies from the US fly to India (the 2nd most populous country)? Answer: only United - they only go to Mumbai and Delhi...but thats like Lufthansa bragging they got America covered, with just JFK and LAX.

It's easy to lump the ME3 together, fact is, Qatar is a bunch of crazies and treat their pilots and FAs like crap. BUT the real threat for you guys (USA airline management) is Emirates. They sit in the middle of a gold rush, ready to grab market share wherever they can. for guys at majors they should sweat, their horse is the weakest in the race. If you are a pilot who is willing to take the best opportunity available, retire before 60, and be selfish...a middle east carrier may be your best option.

I was at a regional in the states and saw that companies (UA, DL, AA, US) make their money off of regional pilots working for crappy wages. If you are pro pilot and pro livable wage, there is no logic in you being against competition from the big scary foreign airlines. These companies employ many Americans and offer them a chance at career earnings that are only pipe dreams State-side.
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To say UA, DL, AA, US makes money off the backs of the regional pilots is extraordinarily disingenuous. The regional pilots are revenue generators such as a mainline pilot is a revenue generator. What has happened is that feed business model that produces revenue isn't working and it is being adjusted at the regional level.

Your argument that Emirates is 'Indian airlines' is weak. Air India is now part of the Star Alliance which allows code sharing between United Airlines to bolster their India service.

The argument you and @typhoonpilot make that this has to do with India and China is bull crap. This has little to do with India and China. Emirates wants to start service between American Cities and European/Asian Cities without touching Dubai. This market saturation will undercut the US Airlines. Think that is fair?

Also, to you and the others defending the ME3, it isn't just the United States saying what the ME3 is doing is wrong. As I said, Canada, France, Germany, and now Holland have expressed their concerns and are acting.

http://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlines/dutch-government-freezes-gulf-carrier-routes.html
 
Stone Cold said:
You're the one saying how deplorable the conditions are for workers over there. So, like I said earlier, you might want to do some more research and visit before spouting as gospel how bad it is over there.
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Two folks who I trust (they don't know each other) told me their experiences there. I have seen others leaving the ME3 Airlines for Spirit and the place I am at now. I have read a large number of articles that paint a similar picture about what it is like over there. What more research do I need? If it smells like crap, it usually is crap.

As for the female crew members and their experiences, try having them go to Saudi Arabia, Iran, or some of the other places in the world. Dubai really is the most western style country over there. It's not perfect, I'm not defending how backwards some things are, but it could be a lot worse. Is it America? No. Know where you are and act accordingly.
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Oh, so they suppress your civil rights less than the other countries, so they are OK. Gotcha. :rolleyes:
 
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Seggy said:
To say UA, DL, AA, US makes money off the backs of the regional pilots is extraordinarily disingenuous. The regional pilots are revenue generators such as a mainline pilot is a revenue generator. What has happened is that feed business model that produces revenue isn't working and it is being adjusted at the regional level.
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Oh sweet, so regional peeps should be paid the same as mainline peeps? They are both generating revenue for thier parent company, right? It's weird how the music changes when one gets a major job. I forgot, it's being "adjusted at the regional level". Riiiiight.

UA, DL, AA and US making money off the backs of regional pilots is probably the most honest thing I've read on here. Hardly "disingenuous".
 
I never blamed DL UA etc for my wages at RAH. Perhaps you have an argument if you work for a WO but otherwise I don't see it.
 
PositionAndHold said:
Oh sweet, so regional peeps should be paid the same as mainline peeps? They are both generating revenue for thier parent company, right? It's weird how the music changes when one gets a major job. I forgot, it's being "adjusted at the regional level". Riiiiight.

UA, DL, AA and US making money off the backs of regional pilots is probably the most honest thing I've read on here. Hardly "disingenuous".
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There is a big difference between generating revenue on an airplane with 100+ seats than there is from 50-76.

Simple math.
 
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