The dark side of the pilot shortage.

nibake said:
You have some good points. What does and doesn't constitute a "satisfactory" argument to a philosophical problem is largely subjective, so I'm okay saying that whether certain answers are good enough is my personal opinion. However, some arguments are far better than others.

2) The main thing I was getting at here is the conclusion that people aren't responsible for their own actions, and do not have free will.

3) See above

4) I think you are saying it may not be clear what a moral authority would tell you to do in all circumstances, and I certainly don't disagree. This doesn't diminish the importance of that authority existing, however, imho.

5) Intellectual honesty requires that we recognize some questions don't have conclusive, readily available answers. I have found some to be far more compelling than others.

6) Books have been written about design features that count be accounted for by chance. You may have a different opinion, but I think this is one of most insurmountable problems of atheism.

7) C'mon, man, it was low hanging fruit! And @av8tr1 needed to win his bet!

TL;DR like all other religions, atheism has problems that a rational person should acknowledge.

Some of them are so serious that I cannot accept them. I'll try not to name-call those who do.
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Naw, I lost. I had ATN in the 12th. No one could have predicted this thread would go for 19 pages. Although technically we left the original topic back on page 2 and haven’t been back since.

However I think the real outcome of “the dark side of the pilot shortage” is “Don’t take life advice from pilots”
 
nibake said:
TL;DR like all other religions, atheism has problems that a rational person should acknowledge.

Some of them are so serious that I cannot accept them. I'll try not to name-call those who do.
Click to expand...

First, atheism isn’t a religion. Atheism is simply lacking a belief in a god. Atheism is the absence of religion.

Second, I’m actually not an atheist. I consider myself more of a deist. I think there probably was some sort of higher power that set all of this in motion, but I’m not married to that belief, and certainly wouldn’t purport to argue the nature of such a being, because there is no evidence to support it.

Finally, your arguments basically amount to two main points: 1) You’re not capable of being moral without believing in a sky fairy, and 2) Science doesn’t have all of the answers yet, so you’d prefer to just make up answers instead.

For the first problem, there are many, many arguments why this is simply not the case. I’d recommend a reading of “The God Delusion” for an in-depth scientific answer to that. The short version is that evolution naturally results in communal mammals having a sense of right and wrong without any belief in a sky fairy being necessary. In fact, since the sky fairies are all man-made, anyway, their moral laws all have this evolutionary origin. For the second problem, I really don’t know how to answer you. Making up answers just to satisfy yourself because science hasn’t discovered everything yet is pure silliness.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
First, atheism isn’t a religion. Atheism is simply lacking a belief in a god. Atheism is the absence of religion.

Second, I’m actually not an atheist. I consider myself more of a deist. I think there probably was some sort of higher power that set all of this in motion, but I’m not married to that belief, and certainly wouldn’t purport to argue the nature of such a being, because there is no evidence to support it.

Finally, your arguments basically amount to two main points: 1) You’re not capable of being moral without believing in a sky fairy, and 2) Science doesn’t have all of the answers yet, so you’d prefer to just make up answers instead.

For the first problem, there are many, many arguments why this is simply not the case. I’d recommend a reading of “The God Delusion” for an in-depth scientific answer to that. The short version is that evolution naturally results in communal mammals having a sense of right and wrong without any belief in a sky fairy being necessary. In fact, since the sky fairies are all man-made, anyway, their moral laws all have this evolutionary origin. For the second problem, I really don’t know how to answer you. Making up answers just to satisfy yourself because science hasn’t discovered everything yet is pure silliness.
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Buddhists are atheists. Simple absence of belief in any gods is sufficient.

No god has ever been morally good. Gods suffer from the same moral relativism as the society which surrounds them.

This is why religious people are less likely to be morally good, are less altruistic, and are more likely to commit crimes.

But this is part of the disease of faith. Belief without evidence, or in the face of evidence to the contrary. Even smart people can fall for this, often resorting to some kind of 'god of the gaps' fallacy. To them seems very reasonable, even when they ridicule creationists.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sure. And now you fly FedEx feed. Riiiiight.
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I made millions of dollars (in salary) in my career in the tech industry, and now I'm on the verge of bankruptcy flying for a regional.

Names, dates and companies check for his story. I can't vouch for the purchase price of Paradigm Shift, but doing a bit of nosing around, there was considerable industry interest in Keyva (Ashburn, VA) at one time.

Be careful who you call out, sir. Some people have actually lived pretty kick-ass lives, and it looks bad to call them out.

-Fox
 
Acrofox said:
I made millions of dollars (in salary) in my career in the tech industry, and now I'm on the verge of bankruptcy flying for a regional.

Names, dates and companies check for his story. I can't vouch for the purchase price of Paradigm Shift, but doing a bit of nosing around, there was considerable industry interest in Keyva (Ashburn, VA) at one time.

Be careful who you call out, sir. Some people have actually lived pretty kick-ass lives, and it looks bad to call them out.

-Fox
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Believe him if you'd like. Personally, I don't believe he's got seven figures sitting in liquid assets while flying rubber dog poo at a feeder. But hey, anything is possible.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Believe him if you'd like. Personally, I don't believe he's got seven figures sitting in liquid assets while flying rubber dog poo at a feeder. But hey, anything is possible.
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Annnnd there’s the old Todd!
 
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NickH said:
Buddhists are atheists. Simple absence of belief in any gods is sufficient.

No god has ever been morally good. Gods suffer from the same moral relativism as the society which surrounds them.

This is why religious people are less likely to be morally good, are less altruistic, and are more likely to commit crimes.

But this is part of the disease of faith. Belief without evidence, or in the face of evidence to the contrary. Even smart people can fall for this, often resorting to some kind of 'god of the gaps' fallacy. To them seems very reasonable, even when they ridicule creationists.
Click to expand...
Wow really? I had no idea Buddhists didn't believe in a god. Wow that's interesting.
 
Acrofox said:
I made millions of dollars (in salary) in my career in the tech industry, and now I'm on the verge of bankruptcy flying for a regional.

Names, dates and companies check for his story. I can't vouch for the purchase price of Paradigm Shift, but doing a bit of nosing around, there was considerable industry interest in Keyva (Ashburn, VA) at one time.

Be careful who you call out, sir. Some people have actually lived pretty kick-ass lives, and it looks bad to call them out.

-Fox
Click to expand...

Thanks Fox for the support.

@ATN_Pilot I don’t have millions in liquid assets. I don’t know where you got the idea that I do.

I do have a Corvette and 2 motorcycles in the garage bought and paid for that I would be pretty sad without.

But most importantly what I do have is a job I enjoy light years more than anything I ever did in tech that doesn’t pay anywhere near the same. My point is in my experience money does not buy happiness and I had to spend a small fortune to figure that out. Your mileage may vary.
 
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