The controller shortage

Are people able to go military direct to a facility? Or do they have to jump through all the other hoops as well?
 
NovemberEcho said:
No, it still exists. They just re-opened the off the street hiring with be preference for CTi grads so the program became kind of moot, and frankly there is almost no discernible difference between someone who went to CTI and someone hired off the street.

Hopefully, the way they are doing it now will result in the CTI programs having a standardized curriculum and FAA oversight. Previously the quality of schools and what they taught varied widely.

This is a good thing though. The academy is a huge bottleneck and letting cti’s go straight to a facility will hopefully help a lot. Whether someone considers it worth it to pay tuition for 2-4 years to learn the same thing the academy teaches (while being paid) in 3-4 months is up to each individual.
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It also would’ve helped had all the CTI grads from the early 2000s weren’t just left unhired due to politics… 74 from my graduating class (myself included) found other jobs because we weren’t deemed awesome enough to get anyone’s attention.
 
Avalon781ML said:
It also would’ve helped had all the CTI grads from the early 2000s weren’t just left unhired due to politics… 74 from my graduating class (myself included) found other jobs because we weren’t deemed awesome enough to get anyone’s attention.
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I don't think the above-mentioned lawsuit has much of a chance, but this is an understated part of the problem and an own-goal by the Obama-era DOT. (I know quite a few CTI grads similarly-situated.)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I don't think the above-mentioned lawsuit has much of a chance, but this is an understated part of the problem and an own-goal by the Obama-era DOT. (I know quite a few CTI grads similarly-situated.)
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Disagree. The quality of trainees coming in during those old CTI days was not any better on average than the off the street hires. They were, however, mostly male, white, and already upper-middle class. People who could not shell out $30k+ for an associates degree that would not help them get any other job were simply shut out of the hiring process all together. If you shelled out for a CTI degree and then didn't get hired, well you knew the risks, a job was never guaranteed.

The problem is the two-fold: 1) the FAA knows nothing about human resources, and 2) no one wants to be an instructor because the pay is crap, the hours are long, and you have to live in Oklahoma.

This will help ease the flow at the academy, but I'll bet training success rate tanks. Especially if the FAA does not provide the syllabus for every CTI school.
 
greg1016 said:
Especially if the FAA does not provide the syllabus for every CTI school.
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Currently it’s only for two schools, both of which are in OKC. I’m hoping it’s because the FAA is working with them to design, implement, tweak, and oversee the curriculum which then gets rolled out to more schools with continued oversight. The variation in schools before was ridiculous.
 
Hasn’t this lawsuit happened several times already? I know I’ve read about them before. The Bio-q that the lawsuit is about happened for one year in 2013 i think it was before getting revamped because something like 800 people out of 50k passed or something like that. Anyone who aged out due to that was allowed to reapply again with an age waiver.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Currently it’s only for two schools, both of which are in OKC. I’m hoping it’s because the FAA is working with them to design, implement, tweak, and oversee the curriculum which then gets rolled out to more schools with continued oversight. The variation in schools before was ridiculous.
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You are giving the FAA way too much credit. You obviously have more info than I do. CCBC and UND were the only two schools worth their salt and neither are in OKC. I know CCBCs program is still intact.
 
I thought the screen was horrible when I went through it in the 80's. Doubt it changed much. Thank goodness I failed....haha.

Seems like they could do better only hiring through military and the CTI schools. If they went that route it and standardized the CTI schools. Provided 141 school like supervision. There would be some expansion in community colleges and university ATC degrees. I don't think it's too much to ask to tell someone who wants to be a controller they have to go thru a two year program.
 
greg1016 said:
You are giving the FAA way too much credit. You obviously have more info than I do. CCBC and UND were the only two schools worth their salt and neither are in OKC. I know CCBCs program is still intact.
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It’s in the article. The direct to facility is only for Tulsa Community College and Univ of Oklahoma graduates. (So not OKC but Oklahoma).
 
DE727UPS said:
I thought the screen was horrible when I went through it in the 80's. Doubt it changed much. Thank goodness I failed....haha.
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This is spot on. The rest of your comment though...I agree, most (by no means all) military controllers are pretty good (don't tell NE). CTI is a completely different story and I don't agree with Pay to Play especially in a job which is very much an apprenticeship.
 
greg1016 said:
This is spot on. The rest of your comment though...I agree, most (by no means all) military controllers are pretty good (don't tell NE). CTI is a completely different story and I don't agree with Pay to Play especially in a job which is very much an apprenticeship.
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I’ve had some outstanding PAR final controllers, both US mil as well as ROK and JASDF mil. Controllers who can literally talk you down to the touchdown zone and +/- 25 feet of centerline in darn near zero/zero. I never have enough time to appreciate it when it’s happening, as I’m usually too busy at the moment following along, and oftentimes sweating fuel or some malfunction.

Have never had experience with an FAA PAR controller, if there are even any anymore. Have gotten some good ASR approaches from them, though those are much less workload.
 
MikeD said:
I’ve had some outstanding PAR final controllers, both US mil as well as ROK and JASDF mil. Controllers who can literally talk you down to the touchdown zone and +/- 25 feet of centerline in darn near zero/zero. I never have enough time to appreciate it when it’s happening, as I’m usually too busy at the moment following along, and oftentimes sweating fuel or some malfunction.

Have never had experience with an FAA PAR controller, if there are even any anymore. Have gotten some good ASR approaches from them, though those are much less workload.
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I don't believe the FAA has PAR controllers, but I do know a few military controllers who were PAR controllers and they are good. I also know some military controllers who were completely incompetent, one was navy and the other marines.
 
As someone who served in the military in a non-aviation capacity, I would advise anyone trying to be a controller to join the military over going to a CTI school. I realize the military isn't for everyone but that would be my advice.
 
greg1016 said:
As someone who served in the military in a non-aviation capacity, I would advise anyone trying to be a controller to join the military over going to a CTI school. I realize the military isn't for everyone but that would be my advice.
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As a former Army controller, join the Air Force to be a controller. Better opportunity to work in several different facilities and work with different aircraft.
 
Puckgoalie said:
As a former Army controller, join the Air Force to be a controller. Better opportunity to work in several different facilities and work with different aircraft.
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If I were doing it again with ATC in mind I would have also joined the air force. In my experience with colleagues with military experience, the air force produces the most consistently good controllers.
 
greg1016 said:
I don't believe the FAA has PAR controllers, but I do know a few military controllers who were PAR controllers and they are good. I also know some military controllers who were completely incompetent, one was navy and the other marines.
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There’s always that 10%.
 
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