The Brits aren't Coming

texas_pilot

texas_pilot

Well-Known Member
Looks like British Airways pilots are going on strike Dec 22- Jan 2.
Must want the time to play Airline Manager on Facebook?
 
You know, sometimes I tend to like the way Europeans do strikes.

A "well be back tomorrow" thing that is sometimes quite literally the next day.

What if all the airline pilots were on strike for a weekend? Would that produce anything?
 
This was NOT what I was thinking it would be when I clicked on it.
 
Everything Im reading says cabin crew. Meaning FAs. No pilots. But obviously without your FAs, you arent going to work either.
 
I don't know much about it, but the way negotiations drag on for years and years, reach an impasse, a strike is called and then a PEB is signed putting you back to work gives airline management all the power.
 
To me, Wildcat strikes are the way to go. Too unpredictible in length to hire scabs, yet they put enormous pressure on airlines.

Yes...I know they are illegal here, the NMB and Railroad labor act and all that...

But - weren't the first unionization attempts undertaken with gigantic risk (talking the Joe Hill days now)? What are they going to do, arrest all the pilots? I know APA got fined huge...just make it a non-union type of thing. Everyone strikes on Jan. 22 for example. Spread the word.
 
I would LOOooOoOOoooooooooove a wildcat strike system here in the US.

The company unilaterally changes a policy that is deleterious to the pilot group and won't air our concerns about the change? We're going on strike tomorrow for 12 hours at a particular hub.

Instead of months and months of gnashing teeth on internet forums, hundreds of calls to elected reps and promises to negotiate to have it changed four years from now when the contract is amendable.
 
Pilots of Jet Airways in India recently protested the firing of 2 pilots. Mind you, it is illegal to be unionized over there. What did the pilot group do? called in sick over a few days...over the firing of 2 pilots, no pay raises, no improvements, nothing, they just wanted those 2 to have their job back.

Wish we had that kind of unity in the states.
 
What I'm saying is this: The current system isn't working for you guys. You play by the rules and you get screwed. Ask the gay rights lobby, the anti-war lobby, or basically anyone except for Wall Street bankers how the Obama administration is working out for them. I think you would get a negative response. Same will happen with the Union's in my opinion. It will be more of the same I think.

The unions were started at great risk, and with blood. These were people that were going to CREATE a new reality and set of rules as opposed to meakly living by them. It is hard to get new people involved in something that basically consists of following a set of rules that don't help much. I think a new militant'ism would draw many to the fight.
 
I wouldn't lay the fault of the RLA at Obama's doorstep. Been around since what the 1920's or so?

Either way it sucks. A little bit of freedom would go a long way.
 
I would be game for an unsanctioned work stoppage. If they want to fine us, fine, they can do it. I'd rather take a fine to court than work the RLA and the RLA-minded arbitrators. The whole system is working in the companys' favor and since it's outdated, I think challenging it outright is the way to go. I'm a conservative-minded person so take a picture, I'm actually saying we should challenge the government and walk.
 
WacoFan said:
What I'm saying is this: The current system isn't working for you guys. You play by the rules and you get screwed. Ask the gay rights lobby, the anti-war lobby, or basically anyone except for Wall Street bankers how the Obama administration is working out for them. I think you would get a negative response. Same will happen with the Union's in my opinion. It will be more of the same I think.

The unions were started at great risk, and with blood. These were people that were going to CREATE a new reality and set of rules as opposed to meakly living by them. It is hard to get new people involved in something that basically consists of following a set of rules that don't help much. I think a new militant'ism would draw many to the fight.
Click to expand...

All of those issues you indicated were never going to magically disappear when the new administration came into office.
 
granlistillo said:
I wouldn't lay the fault of the RLA at Obama's doorstep. Been around since what the 1920's or so?

Either way it sucks. A little bit of freedom would go a long way.
Click to expand...

surreal1221 said:
All of those issues you indicated were never going to magically disappear when the new administration came into office.
Click to expand...

Certainly not blaming Obama for the RLA or the current state of affairs, simply saying that there was much enthusiasm at his election, and that given how other constituencies feel it was perhaps unwarranted.

Labor is in a box right now. Labor isn't scary right now, because everyone knows that your hands are tied. Management knows it, consumers know it, and the people who scab know it. I do believe that labors "teeth" have been taken away, and that right now, by obeying the law, you are certainly "safer" but perhaps more ineffective. Try a couple of wildcat strikes. See what happens to the airlines at that point - see what the mood of the consumer becomes at that point. It will re-iterate that it is in managements best interest to maintain labor peace. It will also give potential scabs notice that unionism is reaching a new militancy and would perhaps give them pause if they start to ask themselves relevant questions like "I wonder if unions are going to go back to breaking legs?". Now, a scab is nothing if not cowardly and into self-preservation, and the thought of severe bodily injury will perhaps be more intimidating to them than the thought of denied jumpseats and inclusion on a list. Just saying...
 
Its an F/A strike. I don't know much about it, but I remember when Virgin Atlantic F/As wanted to strike due to the low pay when compared to other airlines, they were told "If you don't like the job, quit, someone else will take it". They just shut up and went back to work. Sad.
 
WacoFan said:
What I'm saying is this: The current system isn't working for you guys.
Click to expand...

Actually, the system finally is working again. It wasn't working for the previous 8 years, but that's come to a close.

WacoFan said:
Labor is in a box right now. Labor isn't scary right now, because everyone knows that your hands are tied. Management knows it, consumers know it, and the people who scab know it.
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Incorrect, sir. For the first time since early 2001, RLA labor actually has some power. The NMB's release of the AmeriJet pilots was the shot across management's bow. The Hawaiian pilots will soon be released, which will be the first release of a major airline pilot group since 1998 (NWA). Several other carriers are in line after that, and the NMB isn't going to hesitate in releasing them.

In short, managements are starting to get worried. The NMB is threatening releases after just 2 years of bargaining, something absolutely unheard of in recent years. The threat of a strike is back again.

The RLA process is actually much more favorable to us than the NLRA process when it's allowed to work as it was designed. There are huge problems with the NLRA that people aren't aware of. Everyone thinks about the "wonders" of wildcat strikes, but think of the down sides:

- Each domicile has to be organized separately with a separate collective bargaining agreement. In other words, the ATL based Delta pilots could be members of a different union with a different contract than the MSP based pilots. You think the current system allows for whipsaws? It's nothing compared to the NLRA system. Imagine pilots within a single airline being pitted against each other to compete for flying out of other hubs. Race to the bottom!

- A compressed 60-day bargaining process doesn't work for our complicated labor agreements like it does for factory workers or grocery store clerks. What would end up happening would be advances in wages every few years, but eternal stagnation in work rules.

- Newly-organized properties under the RLA usually don't end up with a contract. Yep, that's right, 60% of newly-organized employee groups never get a contract under the NLRA, because the current law doesn't require arbitration in the event of a deadlock. The EFCA is attempting to fix this, but it's still being held up in Congress.


Those are just a few items. The truth is that the RLA is a much better system for our purposes, and we'd get screwed trying to use the NLRA system with a series of "wildcat" strikes. Allow the system to work, and you'll be pleased with the results.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
In short, managements are starting to get worried. The NMB is threatening releases after just 2 years of bargaining, something absolutely unheard of in recent years. The threat of a strike is back again.
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I think management doesn't care. Post deregulation for the most part a strike will not work and management knows that. We (ALPA) have a lot of power, but the sad thing is a few people(Prater and Friends) who talk a big game would never give it all up to make the career better.
 
Gonzo said:
I think management doesn't care. Post deregulation for the most part a strike will not work and management knows that. We (ALPA) have a lot of power, but the sad thing is a few people(Prater and Friends) who talk a big game would never give it all up to make the career better.
Click to expand...
It seemed the Amerijet pilots got most of what they wanted out of their strike.
 
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