The ATC staffing crisis is solved!

derg said:
Imagine if someone had the foresight to reach out to populations that have the aptitude but not the exposures to their opportunities in air traffic control.

Like finding some smart, science-forward young people that never saw themselves as ATC and creating generations of people excited about their opportunities.

Much like what organizations like Young Eagles, NGPA, OBAP, WAI and PAPA did.

Oh… wait.
Click to expand...
I’ve asked this for years. Why on earth a facility like mine isn’t allowed to go out into the high schools and community colleges around Palmdale/Santa Clarita/San Fernando Valley/Simi Valley and recruit.

“Hey, we’ve got a high paying government job with good benefits. If you’re good at math and making quick decisions it could be a great fit for you, the only catch is the facility is in Palmdale and you’ll have no expectation of being able to transfer out”.

Boom. Instantly you have a group of trainees with some tie to the local area who you would assume want to be here. Makes too much sense for the FAA I guess. Better to send kids to Palmdale from all over the country who have never been to CA before, and then act surprised when they either quit as a trainee or try to scam a hardship out when they sign off.
 
Roger Roger said:
If YVR is any example, they are also serious about metering traffic to what the system can handle.
Click to expand...
The way we meter in this country is so flawed I could go on forever about it. But there is a high number of FAA managers who honestly think their job is to never delay traffic and never admit they need help due to staffing. They want all the planes released on time and let the controllers figure it out.

Then when flow and metering is put in it generally doesn’t work. Our TMU is staffed by people who generally couldn’t actually do the job of controlling so they sit up there and drag and drop guys into a departure list, the computer spits out a time, they tell the tower to have you depart at that time. Depending on the type of delay program, the tower has either a 5 minute or 2 minute window on either side of that time to release you. Guess what happens when every tower in SOCAL is 2-5 mins on either side of their time for SFO? I end up with 8 of you tied over RZS and ZOA wanting 20 Miles in Trail for SERFR arrivals. That’s how you end up waiting on the ground for a delay and then still getting turned all over the place at altitude, because I now need to lose 140-160 miles on whichever poor soul is last in that sequence.

It’s one of the reasons I’d love to see them try their stupid Palantir AI Metering BS they’re currently trying to implement. It just doesn’t work.
 
Metering/flow control is exactly the kind of thing automation could be good at because it’s essentially a giant math problem. The • is gonna hit the fan when the machine looks at the number of airplanes and says “what the • no, yall need to fix your schedule because this doesn’t work”.
 
nabbyfan said:
I’ve asked this for years. Why on earth a facility like mine isn’t allowed to go out into the high schools and community colleges around Palmdale/Santa Clarita/San Fernando Valley/Simi Valley and recruit.

“Hey, we’ve got a high paying government job with good benefits. If you’re good at math and making quick decisions it could be a great fit for you, the only catch is the facility is in Palmdale and you’ll have no expectation of being able to transfer out”.

Boom. Instantly you have a group of trainees with some tie to the local area who you would assume want to be here. Makes too much sense for the FAA I guess. Better to send kids to Palmdale from all over the country who have never been to CA before, and then act surprised when they either quit as a trainee or try to scam a hardship out when they sign off.
Click to expand...
Great point. During the 80's, I worked for a federal agency just north of Palmdale. Most of us lived in Lancaster. In any case, my girlfriend and soon to be wife (who grew up in the SF Valley) was ecstatic when I decided to move on. She did not want to and is still happy that we did not spend 40 years in the Antelope Valley.

Back then, because most of us were civilian pilots of some form or fashion, I organized a tour of the Palmdale facility. It was fantastic. At the time, I was a GS-9 step something and was very happy to hear of the controllers' compensation. I asked so many questions, that my workmates accused me of trying to get a job with the FAA right then and there.

So, back to your point, where do most of the folks live? Palmdale, Quartz Hill, Lancaster ( or even Acton or Santa Clarita which I suppose depending on the shift, could be a reverse commute)?
 
nabbyfan said:
Our TMU is staffed by people who generally couldn’t actually do the job of controlling so they sit up there and drag and drop guys into a departure list,
Click to expand...

The PHL TMU is such a joy to work with. I’m not being sarcastic either. Compared to what we were used to at N90 these guys are proactive, come down to the area to ask questions about what we want/need, will push back against Command Centers •. It really is amazing the difference when you can work with competent people.
 
nabbyfan said:
The way we meter in this country is so flawed I could go on forever about it. But there is a high number of FAA managers who honestly think their job is to never delay traffic and never admit they need help due to staffing. They want all the planes released on time and let the controllers figure it out.

Then when flow and metering is put in it generally doesn’t work. Our TMU is staffed by people who generally couldn’t actually do the job of controlling so they sit up there and drag and drop guys into a departure list, the computer spits out a time, they tell the tower to have you depart at that time. Depending on the type of delay program, the tower has either a 5 minute or 2 minute window on either side of that time to release you. Guess what happens when every tower in SOCAL is 2-5 mins on either side of their time for SFO? I end up with 8 of you tied over RZS and ZOA wanting 20 Miles in Trail for SERFR arrivals. That’s how you end up waiting on the ground for a delay and then still getting turned all over the place at altitude, because I now need to lose 140-160 miles on whichever poor soul is last in that sequence.

It’s one of the reasons I’d love to see them try their stupid Palantir AI Metering BS they’re currently trying to implement. It just doesn’t work.
Click to expand...
Also you’re a NORCAL guy? Or ZOA? For some reason I had you on the east coast
 
nabbyfan said:
I’ve asked this for years. Why on earth a facility like mine isn’t allowed to go out into the high schools and community colleges around Palmdale/Santa Clarita/San Fernando Valley/Simi Valley and recruit.

“Hey, we’ve got a high paying government job with good benefits. If you’re good at math and making quick decisions it could be a great fit for you, the only catch is the facility is in Palmdale and you’ll have no expectation of being able to transfer out”.

Boom. Instantly you have a group of trainees with some tie to the local area who you would assume want to be here. Makes too much sense for the FAA I guess. Better to send kids to Palmdale from all over the country who have never been to CA before, and then act surprised when they either quit as a trainee or try to scam a hardship out when they sign off.
Click to expand...
Palmdale. Never use that word in any recruiting effort. I'm old and I remember when Palmdale was all brand new homes and folks would make that commute. These days no one I know goes east of the 14. I worked with a guy that bought his first house in Palmdale but the neighborhood changed and he moved to Rosamond, he worked at LAX. He spent at least 4 hours per day commuting and that was very early morning (3am) and early afternoon (2pm). If there was any sort of disruption it might be a 10 hour commute.
 
Roger Roger said:
Metering/flow control is exactly the kind of thing automation could be good at because it’s essentially a giant math problem. The • is gonna hit the fan when the machine looks at the number of airplanes and says “what the • no, yall need to fix your schedule because this doesn’t work”.
Click to expand...
Fun fact, it's related to the nurse scheduling and the knap-sack problem. Very interesting stuff.

If it makes you feel better if memory serves this problem is NP Complete, so while computers are "better" because they're faster at it, it's not any easier for them.
 
Cushion Rider said:
So, back to your point, where do most of the folks live? Palmdale, Quartz Hill, Lancaster ( or even Acton or Santa Clarita which I suppose depending on the shift, could be a reverse commute)?
Click to expand...
I would say half of the facility lives in Santa Clarita or further south, and about half are up here in Palmdale/Lancaster. There’s a decent amount that drive from Tehachapi too, which is crazy imo.
Roger Roger said:
Also you’re a NORCAL guy? Or ZOA? For some reason I had you on the east coast
Click to expand...
I’m at ZLA. The FAA did me one favor in my career and that was refusing to let me to go to ZOA when I tried to volunteer haha.
 
nabbyfan said:
I would say half of the facility lives in Santa Clarita or further south, and about half are up here in Palmdale/Lancaster. There’s a decent amount that drive from Tehachapi too, which is crazy imo.
Click to expand...
When I was at LA TRACON at LAX in the mid-80's, quite a few commuted from Newhall, Canyon Country, and Santa Clarita. I thought it was nuts but LA was expensive even on an FPL controller salary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top