The always-exciting FAR 91.205!!!

Pooch

Pooch

Well-Known Member
Fellow CFI's---Settle a silly debate here at my flight school.
Required equipment for VFR (day) includes:

(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system . In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made.

Does this (or does this not) mean the beacon? I have a case of beer riding on this one!
 
I have always understood that to mean both the beacon and the strobe if the a/c is equipped with them. Either one goes out and the next landing is to be at a mx base to repair it.

Not sure how you know if it fails in flight though, speaking of the beacon.
 
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Fellow CFI's---Settle a silly debate here at my flight school.
Required equipment for VFR (day) includes:

(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system . In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made.

Does this (or does this not) mean the beacon? I have a case of beer riding on this one!

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It depends. Modern aircraft have a red flashing or rotating beacon light. Some civil aircraft have red colored, white (clear) colored, or half red/half clear colored strobe lights as their beacon, in addition to the wing anti-collision (strobe) systems. In this case, it might matter. But I think the anti-collision light system as written, refers to strobe lights on the wings and tail, unless you have a strobe as the beacon, or as both the anti-collision light system as well as the beacon (like the F-16, for example.....yes, I know we're talking civil here, it's just an example).
 
So one could argue that if you have a red or white light on that aircraft it could be considered an anti collision light since any light that could be seen by others could prevent a possible collision.

So in reference to a new 172, the nav lights minus the green one would be anti collision lights, along with the beacon, and strobe. I think the taxi and landing lights have a bit of a yellow tint though?
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Am I playing the "lawyer talk" game correctly here or have I just gone overboard?

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Either one goes out and the next landing is to be at a mx base to repair it.


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What if only one of the two tip strobes is out?

I'm asking because I'm really not sure. And it's one of those things that always seems to break on the last leg home. I suppose I can guess what the techical answer is, but figured I'd ask anyways...
 
I think you have gone overboard. The green, red, and white lights are the position lights and the anticollision lights are the beacon. The position lights are not required for day, only the anticollision lights.
 
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What if only one of the two tip strobes is out?

I'm asking because I'm really not sure. And it's one of those things that always seems to break on the last leg home. I suppose I can guess what the techical answer is, but figured I'd ask anyways...

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As I understand it, you have to have some coverage for the area covered by the inop strobe. IMO, the beacon should cover this. But some lawyer could likely argue otherwise
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What if only one of the two tip strobes is out?



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If we are saying that the strobe is part of the "system" then this part of 91.205 would apply. "In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system..."

At least that's the way I would read it... Then again I am the same guy who came up with the nav light BS up there above.
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If we are saying that the strobe is part of the "system" then this part of 91.205 would apply. "In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system..."

At least that's the way I would read it... Then again I am the same guy who came up with the nav light BS up there above.
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LOL.....here's one I got once:

You're flying a plane (heavy aircraft) that has wingtip strobes and tail strobes. Each strobe unit has two strobes contained within that flash at the same time. If one of the strobes contained in one of the units fails, can you still take the plane....is it considered inop since it's only operating at "half warning power", compared to the others?
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Ask a mechanic. The post 1996 rule relates to a change in Part 23 dealing with certification. I'm fairly certain the Part 23 reg deals with the rotating beacon but I'm not completely sure. Check out FAR 23.1401.

Of course, when talking about anticollision lights, don't forget 91.209(b) which tells us that no person may:

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Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.
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That has nothing to do with post or pre-1996 or whether it's a certification-based anticollision light or not.
 
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LOL.....here's one I got once:

You're flying a plane (heavy aircraft) that has wingtip strobes and tail strobes. Each strobe unit has two strobes contained within that flash at the same time. If one of the strobes contained in one of the units fails, can you still take the plane....is it considered inop since it's only operating at "half warning power", compared to the others?
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It was working when I did the pre-flight. Dang thing must have burnt out in-flight.
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I'm fairly certain the Part 23 reg deals with the rotating beacon but I'm not completely sure. Check out FAR 23.1401.

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23.1401 deals with either the rotating beacon OR the strobes. When you read FAR 23.1401, either the rotating beacon or the strobe qualify.

§ 23.1401 Anticollision light system.

(a) General. The airplane must have an anticollision light system that:

(1) Consists of one or more approved anticollision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and

(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.

(b) Field of coverage. The system must consist of enough lights to illuminate the vital areas around the airplane, considering the physical configuration and flight characteristics of the airplane. The field of coverage must extend in each direction within at least 75 degrees above and 75 degrees below the horizontal plane of the airplane, except that there may be solid angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.5 steradians.

(c) Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.

(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of §23.1397.

With regards to needing an anti-collision light system, I teach that if you've got both a beacon and a strobe, one of them needs to be working. If you've got only one, then it needs to be working. If you've got neither, and your aircraft is pre-1996, you can fly!
 
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It was working when I did the pre-flight. Dang thing must have burnt out in-flight

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our 172RG actually did this for a short time, until it got fixed. during preflight all the lights worked, including the beacon. weird thing was that as soon as the engine started the beacon would stop working. i got yelled at about 3 times by the chief instructor for "forgeting to turn on my beacon". so after the second time he yelled i took a camera into the airplane and took a picture of the beacon light switch in the "ON" position as my student was taxiing. after that i did some experimenting and found out the light wouldn't work with the engine runing. they ended up replacing the whole assembly.
 
The way I understand it, either the beacon or the strobes qualify as anti-collision lights and satisfy the requirement of 91.205. If one of them is inop, the other meets the requirement, as long as you comply with 91.213 or your MEL which ever is applicable. If you only have strobe lights and no beacon, it is my understanding that if one of the stobes is out, the whole system is considered INOP and you do not have anti-collision lights to satisfy 91.205.
 
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If you've got neither, and your aircraft is pre-1996, you can fly!

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This is true, assuming that anti-collision lights are not installed. If they are installed but INOP that is a different situation. According to 91.209, even if your aircraft is pre-1996, if they have been installed they must be operative.
 
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If you've got neither, and your aircraft is pre-1996, you can fly!

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This is true, assuming that anti-collision lights are not installed. If they are installed but INOP that is a different situation. According to 91.209, even if your aircraft is pre-1996, if they have been installed they must be operative.

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That's correct. That's why I said, "If you've got neither . . .", not "If they're INOP"

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I was pretty confident that you knew that, but I was making sure any student pilots who may have been lurking didn't misunderstand.
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I was pretty confident that you knew that, but I was making sure any student pilots who may have been lurking didn't misunderstand.
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I know it...giving you a hard time!!
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How are things in the Bay?
 
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