Textron SkyCourier

dustoff17 said:
It's been done already...
It's called a Shorts......

P.S. The push for this plane was to make it big enough to hold the cargo containers of FedEx.....we'll see....
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It's not beating the Shorts unless it's certified to be flown single pilot.
 
ppragman said:
7000'? Not even remotely true part 135, even full load. Are you talking balanced field length? Even then I'm not sure. Let me see if I can find my old books with performance data.

Never flew it part 121, but yeah.

I agree with the bulk out sentiment, but honestly it was never that bad with UPS freight when I flew it - we bulked out a lot, sure, but I usually ran out of bulk about 100 - 400lbs shy of gross anyway. Having a ton more volume wouldn't let me carry everything during peak anyway.
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My mistake, it didn’t matter what the runway distance was. With the performance data we had at AMF, I couldn’t get out of a field at 130 ft MSL with a full MTOW unless it was below 55F or so. It was climb limiting, not runway.

Either way, you arent raising the MTOW of a 1900C more, without bigger engines and then more engineering. Probably cheaper to build a new airplane at that point
 
Beefy McGee said:
How would this thing compete in the pax carrying version vs say a Twin Otter? I'm thinking Alaska or island hopping ops.
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Issue I see there is 135 ops restricts how many seats you can have on an airplane, something like 10 correct? It'll seat up to 19 which will be huge for APAC. I use to run all of our APAC visits and all of them wanted a Beech 1900 due to passenger carrying capability but for short legs (hence why KA was uneconomical but Caravan made sense). I see it doing extremely well if the market is receptive to it in that region.
Roger Roger said:
Unpressurized, boots, and all kinds of drag hanging out in the wind...bets on how long before one drops out of the sky as an ice cube?
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I think it'll be okay! We have a custom Excel that has planes follow it for ice testing. Always thought it would be fun to tag along on one of those flights.

Regardless I'm excited to see our company reinvesting and creating another new clean sheet aircraft for the market. We all need innovation in this industry to keep pushing forward! And the plan is to have it certified for single pilot ops last time I checked but not sure if that's confirmed.
 
Roger Roger said:
Unpressurized, boots, and all kinds of drag hanging out in the wind...bets on how long before one drops out of the sky as an ice cube?
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Well it’s Cessna...you can’t really replace the Caravan if you don’t make it absolutely terrible in icing.

It’s fiiiine...slap a boot on every surface imaginable, tie them into a system that doesn’t have the bleed air to spare, then blame the operator when one balls it in.

I say this as someone with a lot of time in Caravans, CJs, 500s, and 650s, and a complete lack of being impressed by any of them. There’s really not a competitor I wouldn’t prefer.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
My mistake, it didn’t matter what the runway distance was. With the performance data we had at AMF, I couldn’t get out of a field at 130 ft MSL with a full MTOW unless it was below 55F or so. It was climb limiting, not runway.

Either way, you arent raising the MTOW of a 1900C more, without bigger engines and then more engineering. Probably cheaper to build a new airplane at that point
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It's already been done. The C-model has an upgross kit that takes it up 1000lbs.

I'd bet my lunch money you could bring it up to 18600 or higher and still do well on one engine.

I literally never had a problem in the climb in that thing in the climb even grossed out. Seriously I'd love to see your climb data cuz that thing climbed like a violated chimp. Amflights might have been super clapped out though.
 
ppragman said:
It's already been done. The C-model has an upgross kit that takes it up 1000lbs.

I'd bet my lunch money you could bring it up to 18600 or higher and still do well on one engine.

I literally never had a problem in the climb in that thing in the climb even grossed out. Seriously I'd love to see your climb data cuz that thing climbed like a violated chimp. Amflights might have been super clapped out though.
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We had the upgrade, on the birds I flew. We had performance cards to operate on the 16.6k MTOW and 17.6k MTOW on the birds that were upgraded. The 17.6k MTOW birds had a huge OEI hit, which is where I'm remembering having trouble getting out of BED with a full load on a ISA+ day. If the AMF data cards were conservative, I have no idea. I just know I left fuel behind more than once, because I couldn't leave BED at 17.6K when it was warm.

Either way, all the weight in the world doesn't fit an LD3 into a 1900, nor does it change the internal volume, which is the real issue when flying UPS/FedEx. I remember bulking out a 1900 with as little as 2500 lbs of UPS freight, just depended on the density of the boxes and how crappy the loaders were.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
I remember bulking out a 1900 with as little as 2500 lbs of UPS freight, just depended on the density of the boxes and how crappy the loaders were.
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One one valentines day, I bulked out a 208 with 950 pounds of flowers on a run from DFW to Temple TX. It wasn't because the loaders screwed up either, we used every cubic inch. There was a metro and two MU2s at the same destination, all bulked out as well. I think to total weight was 3000 lbs, but it took four planes to get it there.

Don't forget this goodie from Cessna's marketing dept
image.jpeg
 
This is the Tecnam Traveller's domestic big brother. Same simplify-it principles at work. Designed to be inexpensive to buy & cheap to operate, in a niche where slow doesn't matter much, and pressurization is a luxury that isn't particularly cost-effective for flying purple boxes.
 
BigZ said:
Name isn't catchy
Caravan is catchy. 'Van
SkyCourier - who's gonna pronounce that?
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They won't. It will be "Courier" if it isn't already.

I'm looking forward to this. Word around the office is we will see them right away (well as soon as certification happens) expected late 2020.

I love the Van and getting the bonus of a second engine really works well. With the new fully digital autopilot coupled with the G600 this thing will be an awesome ride. I just hope they don't force us into a crew ops situation. I like single pilot too much.
 
av8tr1 said:
They won't. It will be "Courier" if it isn't already.

I'm looking forward to this. Word around the office is we will see them right away (well as soon as certification happens) expected late 2020.

I love the Van and getting the bonus of a second engine really works well. With the new fully digital autopilot coupled with the G600 this thing will be an awesome ride. I just hope they don't force us into a crew ops situation. I like single pilot too much.
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I uhh...what?

I liked that it made tons of money for my employer but that's about it, it's just an unbelievably boring airplane to fly.
 
ppragman said:
I uhh...what?

I liked that it made tons of money for my employer but that's about it, it's just an unbelievably boring airplane to fly.
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Dude, its gotta be tons more fun flying the Van single pilot below the flight levels than it is flying any sort of heavy iron in the flight levels as a crew.

Every jump seat experience has been 1000 feet autopilot on, shoulder harness off, seat back, Otto to assigned altitude. Then it's 4-5 hours of work work work, schedule schedule schedule......aww...you know they rest......with occasional "Hey did you see the game last night?". I've wanted to shoot myself just sitting in the jump seat (although that might have just been due to riding the jump on a 737, no wonder I have back problems). I ride SWA a ton and it just seems boring to me with very little to do after the FMS is all set up. The rest of the time it's like sharing a IT support cubicle on a weekend shift.....

To a man/woman/wookiee everytime I say I fly the Van most 121 types they get all giddy and talk about how much they miss those days.

(Before you guys jump all up in my grill about the whole don't knock the 121 stuff, I've already started my airline apps application).
 
av8tr1 said:
Dude, its gotta be tons more fun flying the Van single pilot below the flight levels than it is flying any sort of heavy iron in the flight levels as a crew.

Every jump seat experience has been 1000 feet autopilot on, shoulder harness off, seat back, Otto to assigned altitude. Then it's 4-5 hours of work work work, schedule schedule schedule......aww...you know they rest......with occasional "Hey did you see the game last night?". I've wanted to shoot myself just sitting in the jump seat (although that might have just been due to riding the jump on a 737, no wonder I have back problems). I ride SWA a ton and it just seems boring to me with very little to do after the FMS is all set up. The rest of the time it's like sharing a IT support cubicle on a weekend shift.....

To a man/woman/wookiee everytime I say I fly the Van most 121 types they get all giddy and talk about how much they miss those days.

(Before you guys jump all up in my grill about the whole don't knock the 121 stuff, I've already started my airline apps application).
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Navajo, Kingair, PC12 for the win.

The van is a snooze fest - except the 950SHP version and then only when you're empty. The rest of the time it's americas least interesting airplane.
 
av8tr1 said:
Dude, its gotta be tons more fun flying the Van single pilot below the flight levels than it is flying any sort of heavy iron in the flight levels as a crew.

Every jump seat experience has been 1000 feet autopilot on, shoulder harness off, seat back, Otto to assigned altitude. Then it's 4-5 hours of work work work, schedule schedule schedule......aww...you know they rest......with occasional "Hey did you see the game last night?". I've wanted to shoot myself just sitting in the jump seat (although that might have just been due to riding the jump on a 737, no wonder I have back problems). I ride SWA a ton and it just seems boring to me with very little to do after the FMS is all set up. The rest of the time it's like sharing a IT support cubicle on a weekend shift.....

To a man/woman/wookiee everytime I say I fly the Van most 121 types they get all giddy and talk about how much they miss those days.

(Before you guys jump all up in my grill about the whole don't knock the 121 stuff, I've already started my airline apps application).
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Done both, both are equally as “fun” I just don’t have to worry about dieing in ice now. Once you get to cruise it’s all the same really. Most guys I’ve flown with handfly to the mid-teens unless it gets busy.
 
mikecweb said:
Done both, both are equally as “fun” I just don’t have to worry about dieing in ice now. Once you get to cruise it’s all the same really. Most guys I’ve flown with handfly to the mid-teens unless it gets busy.
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In our tinker toy biz jet, I handfly to 28 every time, gotta get my dirty paws on the yoke as much as possible!
 
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