G
Guest
Guest
Very interesting story about a woman's experience on a flight post 9/11 with some suspicious activity.
Terror in the Skies?
Terror in the Skies?
RiddlePilot
New Member
"As aware Americans..."
That's so great. I bet if a group of white guys stood around like that, people would sit in their seats all fat, dumb, and happy. Only once it becomes "those evil middle-easterns" does any of this pose a threat. I like how she even denies being a racial-profiler or racist, even though she mentioned that she was "aware" as they boarded the plane.
Man, I love people.
That's so great. I bet if a group of white guys stood around like that, people would sit in their seats all fat, dumb, and happy. Only once it becomes "those evil middle-easterns" does any of this pose a threat. I like how she even denies being a racial-profiler or racist, even though she mentioned that she was "aware" as they boarded the plane.
Man, I love people.
Well, in my humble opinion, if they try to comandeer (sp?) an airliner, they're going to be tremendously unassumingly dressed. Perhaps even some "blonde & blue" operatives from eastern Europe because the average cable news "Joe" would never suspect them.
flyover
New Member
I think this was pretty well documented. This lady was not the only one who came forward, she just wrote a piece that got published.
It was this incident and some others that lead to the current procedures that don't allow congregating at the bathroom. Announcements are made prior to departure and if anyone violates it gives the crew more latitude as now the passengers are not following directions. This is on international flights into US.
There have definitely been a number of incidents of muslim men pulling stuff like this on flights. At least according to TSA people I've talked to. I could say who but I'd have to kill you.
I think if they do manage to blow up a plane using these techniques the PC hand-wringing about profiling will be over.
It was this incident and some others that lead to the current procedures that don't allow congregating at the bathroom. Announcements are made prior to departure and if anyone violates it gives the crew more latitude as now the passengers are not following directions. This is on international flights into US.
There have definitely been a number of incidents of muslim men pulling stuff like this on flights. At least according to TSA people I've talked to. I could say who but I'd have to kill you.
I think if they do manage to blow up a plane using these techniques the PC hand-wringing about profiling will be over.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Security is fine, but where do you cross the line into ridiculousness? Did you know that the wonderful people at homeland [in]security told Qantas that they didn't like their passengers getting up during their flights to the US? That is absurd.
The 30 minute rule for DCA, I can understand. Not the most logical thing in the world, but at least it's understandable. But telling folks they can't get up during a 12 hour flight? That's crazy.
The 30 minute rule for DCA, I can understand. Not the most logical thing in the world, but at least it's understandable. But telling folks they can't get up during a 12 hour flight? That's crazy.
IFLYAAORD
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
"As aware Americans..."
That's so great. I bet if a group of white guys stood around like that, people would sit in their seats all fat, dumb, and happy. Only once it becomes "those evil middle-easterns" does any of this pose a threat. I like how she even denies being a racial-profiler or racist, even though she mentioned that she was "aware" as they boarded the plane.
Man, I love people.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have more than 4 years of law enforcement experience under my belt, and yes we profile. We profile because it is a necessary tool in preventing and reacting to a given threat.
In my experience, I know what habits and "tell" signs a criminal gives off. Knowing these comes from years of personal experience, and countless years of other peoples experiences. I am not going to put my safety, or my partner's safety in jeopardy by being "p.c." and not profiling. Being able to know a given trait or attribute of a certain type of criminal elements are necessities in a public safety because of the nature of our job and what we do. Knowing these and effectively using them gives us a chance to prevent crimes from occuring, or catching the person(s) who committed them after the fact.
The next time you come in contact with someone who has been mugged where they saw a possible suspect, don't forget to tell them not to profile while giving the description to the police. Tell them this.
--Just because they had a very "tan" complexion and were short, don't assume they were Mexican.
--Just because they were listening to "hip-hop" music as they drove away, don't assume they Black.
--Just becauase their car was "bondo" color, don't assume they were White Trash.
I am EXTREMELY worried when people in the U.S. are more concerned about hurting someones feelings, rather than keeping a great many others safe. To those people I say, get real, get a life, and get in touch with the "big picture."
"As aware Americans..."
That's so great. I bet if a group of white guys stood around like that, people would sit in their seats all fat, dumb, and happy. Only once it becomes "those evil middle-easterns" does any of this pose a threat. I like how she even denies being a racial-profiler or racist, even though she mentioned that she was "aware" as they boarded the plane.
Man, I love people.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have more than 4 years of law enforcement experience under my belt, and yes we profile. We profile because it is a necessary tool in preventing and reacting to a given threat.
In my experience, I know what habits and "tell" signs a criminal gives off. Knowing these comes from years of personal experience, and countless years of other peoples experiences. I am not going to put my safety, or my partner's safety in jeopardy by being "p.c." and not profiling. Being able to know a given trait or attribute of a certain type of criminal elements are necessities in a public safety because of the nature of our job and what we do. Knowing these and effectively using them gives us a chance to prevent crimes from occuring, or catching the person(s) who committed them after the fact.
The next time you come in contact with someone who has been mugged where they saw a possible suspect, don't forget to tell them not to profile while giving the description to the police. Tell them this.
--Just because they had a very "tan" complexion and were short, don't assume they were Mexican.
--Just because they were listening to "hip-hop" music as they drove away, don't assume they Black.
--Just becauase their car was "bondo" color, don't assume they were White Trash.
I am EXTREMELY worried when people in the U.S. are more concerned about hurting someones feelings, rather than keeping a great many others safe. To those people I say, get real, get a life, and get in touch with the "big picture."
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Security is fine, but where do you cross the line into ridiculousness? Did you know that the wonderful people at homeland [in]security told Qantas that they didn't like their passengers getting up during their flights to the US? That is absurd.
The 30 minute rule for DCA, I can understand. Not the most logical thing in the world, but at least it's understandable. But telling folks they can't get up during a 12 hour flight? That's crazy.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have wrong information. You believe too much of what you read.
Security is fine, but where do you cross the line into ridiculousness? Did you know that the wonderful people at homeland [in]security told Qantas that they didn't like their passengers getting up during their flights to the US? That is absurd.
The 30 minute rule for DCA, I can understand. Not the most logical thing in the world, but at least it's understandable. But telling folks they can't get up during a 12 hour flight? That's crazy.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have wrong information. You believe too much of what you read.
Cutlass1287
Well-Known Member
I do agree that the media tends to sensationalize things, but in this particular case, it seems that something did occur. Profiling? Of course we need to profile! Yes we are a country that accepts all different types of people, but we need to protect ourselves, and that means profiling certain types of people. I think the U.S. airlines need to take a little instruction from El Al Israel, you know, the airline that has never had a hijacking. They don't take crap from anybody!
G
Guest
Guest
Profiling shouldn't even be considered wrong under the circumstances that people can be harmed. If you work in a bank and you see 6 man in black hoods and black clothes walk in and starts doing some suspicious activity, don't tell me you wouldn't be looking at them and maybe even alert other emplyees near you. It is all about safety. If you don't precautinary steps and not profile in these matters you might be the one who will be paying the price.
Icelandair
New Member
lets see...
19 out of 19 hijackers were arab muslims.
16 out of 19 were from saudi arabia.
19 out of 19 hijackers were men, ages 18-40.
0 were irish nuns
0 were confined to a wheelchair.
So if i see an old lady, or a muslim man between 18 and 40, who should have the bigger chance of being searched? Logic.
19 out of 19 hijackers were arab muslims.
16 out of 19 were from saudi arabia.
19 out of 19 hijackers were men, ages 18-40.
0 were irish nuns
0 were confined to a wheelchair.
So if i see an old lady, or a muslim man between 18 and 40, who should have the bigger chance of being searched? Logic.
G
Guest
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
lets see...
19 out of 19 hijackers were arab muslims.
16 out of 19 were from saudi arabia.
19 out of 19 hijackers were men, ages 18-40.
0 were irish nuns
0 were confined to a wheelchair.
So if i see an old lady, or a muslim man between 18 and 40, who should have the bigger chance of being searched? Logic.
[/ QUOTE ]
lets see...
19 out of 19 hijackers were arab muslims.
16 out of 19 were from saudi arabia.
19 out of 19 hijackers were men, ages 18-40.
0 were irish nuns
0 were confined to a wheelchair.
So if i see an old lady, or a muslim man between 18 and 40, who should have the bigger chance of being searched? Logic.
[/ QUOTE ]
EDUC8-or
Well-Known Member
I don't care when I get wanded and questioned by TSA. Maybe the person doing wasn't so nice and maybe pushed a few of my buttons, but I would rather be safe than sorry. Go to some European airports, man some of the screeners for US airlines over there make you feel like you might have done something bad even if you haven't.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
I have no problem with profiling. I think it is essential in it's pure form. I am not into political correctness. What I am into is protecting civil liberties. The government should not keep dossiers on random citizens. It should not track spending habits of random citizens. (Those that are known terrorists or criminals, that is a separate issue.)
The terrorists seek to change our way of life. Bombing things is not the only way they can succeed. They also can suceed by scaring us into changing our way of life into something less American. They have succeeded if we abandon our way of life in exchange for supposed security.
Don't let Bush and the right wing change our way of life by increasing the size of our government in the name of security and safety. (By the way, those who know anything about the history of the GOP would see irony in them increasing the size of government.) They have their own interests in mind, not the interests of the people.
Remember the charter of our country is about freedom and liberty first, the government second. It is a great shame that we, as Americans, have forgotten who we are!
Grayson
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
I have no problem with profiling. I think it is essential in it's pure form. I am not into political correctness. What I am into is protecting civil liberties. The government should not keep dossiers on random citizens. It should not track spending habits of random citizens. (Those that are known terrorists or criminals, that is a separate issue.)
The terrorists seek to change our way of life. Bombing things is not the only way they can succeed. They also can suceed by scaring us into changing our way of life into something less American. They have succeeded if we abandon our way of life in exchange for supposed security.
Don't let Bush and the right wing change our way of life by increasing the size of our government in the name of security and safety. (By the way, those who know anything about the history of the GOP would see irony in them increasing the size of government.) They have their own interests in mind, not the interests of the people.
Remember the charter of our country is about freedom and liberty first, the government second. It is a great shame that we, as Americans, have forgotten who we are!
Grayson
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with profiling. I think it is essential in it's pure form.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree 100%. It's even protected under some Article in cases of security from air piracy and weapons on aircraft. I'm too lazy to look up which one right now, but if anyone wants me to, I'll find it.
What I have a problem with is what is done with the profiling. Looking at someone and saying "hey, he's probably Arabic" is one thing. Then looking at that person and automatically assuming he is up to no good and plans to kill us all, is totally different. Although, seeing a known terrorist coming into the country who is on a "watch list" and letting him in to "see what he does and who he meets with" didn't exactly work out for us, either.
I have no problem with profiling. I think it is essential in it's pure form.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree 100%. It's even protected under some Article in cases of security from air piracy and weapons on aircraft. I'm too lazy to look up which one right now, but if anyone wants me to, I'll find it.
What I have a problem with is what is done with the profiling. Looking at someone and saying "hey, he's probably Arabic" is one thing. Then looking at that person and automatically assuming he is up to no good and plans to kill us all, is totally different. Although, seeing a known terrorist coming into the country who is on a "watch list" and letting him in to "see what he does and who he meets with" didn't exactly work out for us, either.
bullmastiff
New Member
On this flight, I dont understand why the F/A's did not tell these people to sit down. That would be the best way to determine what they are thinking IMO When asked, if they refuse, or act belligerant, then its a bad sign. Letting them do as they please, and repeatedly go to the lav is gonna help, only help them
G
Guest
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
On this flight, I dont understand why the F/A's did not tell these people to sit down. That would be the best way to determine what they are thinking IMO When asked, if they refuse, or act belligerant, then its a bad sign. Letting them do as they please, and repeatedly go to the lav is gonna help, only help them
[/ QUOTE ]
That might just make the situation worse somehow.
On this flight, I dont understand why the F/A's did not tell these people to sit down. That would be the best way to determine what they are thinking IMO When asked, if they refuse, or act belligerant, then its a bad sign. Letting them do as they please, and repeatedly go to the lav is gonna help, only help them
[/ QUOTE ]
That might just make the situation worse somehow.
bullmastiff
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On this flight, I dont understand why the F/A's did not tell these people to sit down. That would be the best way to determine what they are thinking IMO When asked, if they refuse, or act belligerant, then its a bad sign. Letting them do as they please, and repeatedly go to the lav is gonna help, only help them
[/ QUOTE ]
That might just make the situation worse somehow.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a chance of that... Being passive doesnt get you anywhere IMO.... If they are trying to assemble a bomb on the flight, the last thing you need is for them to repeatedly enter the lav
[ QUOTE ]
On this flight, I dont understand why the F/A's did not tell these people to sit down. That would be the best way to determine what they are thinking IMO When asked, if they refuse, or act belligerant, then its a bad sign. Letting them do as they please, and repeatedly go to the lav is gonna help, only help them
[/ QUOTE ]
That might just make the situation worse somehow.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a chance of that... Being passive doesnt get you anywhere IMO.... If they are trying to assemble a bomb on the flight, the last thing you need is for them to repeatedly enter the lav
bushmaster
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have more than 4 years of law enforcement experience under my belt, and yes we profile.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thin Blue _____
I have more than 4 years of law enforcement experience under my belt, and yes we profile.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thin Blue _____