Terrible... Fatal BHM accident..

WacoFan said:
I would say a random occurrence and cruel display by the Universe which was created by inept attachment of the monitor. Report I heard said they stuck it up there with liquid nails - which seems negligent to me. Very sad.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they thought that was a good idea and nothing wrong with using only a consumer grade epoxy to hold up something that heavy. Next the bridges will fall down because the rebar was put together with JBweld. But no one actually thought there was a problem with that.
This is why even a basic level of education is important. Can you swing a hammer without high school? Yes, but you'll probably still suck at it.
 
z987k said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they thought that was a good idea and nothing wrong with using only a consumer grade epoxy to hold up something that heavy. Next the bridges will fall down because the rebar was put together with JBweld. But no one actually thought there was a problem with that.
This is why even a basic level of education is important. Can you swing a hammer without high school? Yes, but you'll probably still suck at it.
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Hey JBWeld is a good product!
 
Yikes. Awful. Although I'm somewhat relieved to hear that it wasn't an airplane accident.... I have friends who fly out of BHM.
 
Sol Rosenburg said:
very often contractors will fasten items in a manner inconsistent with the plans that an engineer drew up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse

so sad
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There is a famous high rise building (unfortunately i forget where) out east that is built on 4 legs and cantilevered over a church. The architect discovered that the building was unsafe when it was hit by quartering winds due the fact the construction team substituted cheaper bolts than those called for in the plans. The architect was forced to self disclose and they had to go back in and do a lot of welding to make it safe again.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
There is a famous high rise building (unfortunately i forget where) out east that is built on 4 legs and cantilevered over a church. The architect discovered that the building was unsafe when it was hit by quartering winds due the fact the construction team substituted cheaper bolts than those called for in the plans. The architect was forced to self disclose and they had to go back in and do a lot of welding to make it safe again.
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It was actually a student that made him realize what happened. First he screwed up by doing the math wrong. Then, when they did the job, they welded instead of using bolts, thus reducing the strength further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup_Center
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Very sad. If what you say is true WacoFan, the guys that did it need to be in jail for a minimum of Manslaughter as well as their supervisors.
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Do you really think that's appropriate? I'm honestly curious. Accidents do happen, and personally I have a real problem with the concept of "criminal negligence" being presumed at that level. Now, if someone put it up that way to pocket more money... then by all means nail them to the wall. But if it was a mistake? A flawed strength calculation? A surface that was, unbeknownst to the installer, contaminated?

Do we really want to jail them for a minimum of manslaughter?

Jailing someone is a very drastic measure, but an insufficient deterrent for most types of mistake due to the low probability. Not every event in society requires retribution or revenge.

-Fox
 
Acrofox said:
Do you really think that's appropriate? I'm honestly curious. Accidents do happen, and personally I have a real problem with the concept of "criminal negligence" being presumed at that level. Now, if someone put it up that way to pocket more money... then by all means nail them to the wall. But if it was a mistake? A flawed strength calculation? A surface that was, unbeknownst to the installer, contaminated?

Do we really want to jail them for a minimum of manslaughter?

Jailing someone is a very drastic measure, but an insufficient deterrent for most types of mistake due to the low probability. Not every event in society requires retribution or revenge.

-Fox
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Yes, these people take that risk by going into fields such as this. It's not about revenge, it's about accountability. When people's lives are at risk there's no room for error.
 
Acrofox said:
Do you really think that's appropriate? I'm honestly curious. Accidents do happen, and personally I have a real problem with the concept of "criminal negligence" being presumed at that level. Now, if someone put it up that way to pocket more money... then by all means nail them to the wall. But if it was a mistake? A flawed strength calculation? A surface that was, unbeknownst to the installer, contaminated?

Do we really want to jail them for a minimum of manslaughter?

Jailing someone is a very drastic measure, but an insufficient deterrent for most types of mistake due to the low probability. Not every event in society requires retribution or revenge.

-Fox
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Yes, people do need to be held accountable for their actions. I quite frankly am tired of society's mentality lately that nothing is every anyone's fault and crap just happens. This is why we will have an investigation to find out if this was truly an accident caused by factors outside the builder/engineers control or an error, omission, etc that warrants criminal prosecution. If it meets the criminal guidelines then, yes I want those responsible charged.

JTRAIN can probably comment more on what it takes to warrant it being criminal.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Yes, people do need to be held accountable for their actions. I quite frankly am tired of society's mentality lately that nothing is every anyone's fault and crap just happens. This is why we will have an investigation to find out if this was truly an accident caused by factors outside the builder/engineers control or an error, omission, etc that warrants criminal prosecution. If it meets the criminal guidelines then, yes I want those responsible charged.

JTRAIN can probably comment more on what it takes to warrant it being criminal.
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Agreed. The "accidents happen" mentality doesn't fly too far in aviation in a lot of cases. If a captain clearly made a bad decision, they're accountable. I don't see why it should be different in any other profession.
 
Acrofox said:
Do you really think that's appropriate? I'm honestly curious. Accidents do happen, and personally I have a real problem with the concept of "criminal negligence" being presumed at that level. Now, if someone put it up that way to pocket more money... then by all means nail them to the wall. But if it was a mistake? A flawed strength calculation? A surface that was, unbeknownst to the installer, contaminated?

Do we really want to jail them for a minimum of manslaughter?

Jailing someone is a very drastic measure, but an insufficient deterrent for most types of mistake due to the low probability. Not every event in society requires retribution or revenge.

-Fox
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I'm going to just go ahead and agree with this point of view. FYI all y'all.
 
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