Tenative Job Offers??

That's one of the biggest reasons I joined the Air Force to learn ATC. I got paid to actually control traffic instead of paying to control simulators, and it's paying big dividends now cuz I'm first in line to get hired and now I get to use my GI bill while I'm in training.
 
Hey JTATC do you know how the GI Bill works? Is it the full $1101, cause I didn't buy the buy up. Also do I need to complete the VONAPP before I get there?
 
wve_iii said:
LOL, you think because someone went to "Northwestern" that makes them more qualified?? What did he/she major in? History? Art? Music? LOL Anyways the FAA really doesnt care what you majored in or where you went. In the private industry what college you went amy have some effect but really only for the first job out of college and when it comes to most govt jobs they really generally dont care they just want to know you meet the requirements. But after your first job, your work experience generally speaks for you and your degree is seen as "B.S. or B.A" and name of college really doesnt matter. A degree shows the same traits as progressive work experience, It shows that you a capable of long term commitment to something (generally you cant finish your degree by being a lazy) which shows them responsibility. Personally if it were me and I have spent all this money developeing this test im going to use it as the indicator as to whether some one has the necessary skills to perform the job. Then Im going to use their experience(work and school) to determine if they are going to have the commitment and motivation to complete the program. Therefore no matter what school you go to or what job you do, if you show a progressive ability to succeed then you probably possess the ability to do so with the FAA as well. Second of all why would it matter what job someone started their career at? I started at Mcdonalds when I was 15 and I am damned proud of it. In fact most people start jobs this way. There is typically a limited number of jobs that are available at this age. Great that you got a job at an accounting company and that its a "Large Corporation" (is it a FORTUNE 500 or anything else special :sarcasm:). But I think that actually your work background is not very diverse, if youve worked for the same company for your entire working career. I would never want to give up starting at Mcdonalds and working my way up through different jobs. I think with a little diversity in your work experience you get to meet alot of different people and see how things are done differently at different places. In fact the working relationships you pick up while changing jobs early in your career are great learning experience. And I bet you wouldnt think of a Wendys manager as a cake job if you had to go deal with teenagers all day.

But overall if youve done great things and went to a great school and your that well qualifiesd for the job. What was your problem with the test. I mean honestly this was a fairly easy exam. I beleive that this test has been thought out pretty thoroughly and a lot of money has been spent on it. So I really dont understand the Person A and Person B comparison. If you are as qualified and good as you say then this should have reflected itsslef in the exam.
Click to expand...

You are doing a ton of implying and assuming here. My point was there is more to who gets hired than the test score and while it may appear two candidates meet the same requirements there is often more to thier story. Also, I do not consider the time I spent washing dishes, grill cooking, waiting and bussing tables at Happy Chef while I was in high school as part of my career and it is not listed on my resume or when I fill out applications. That was over 10 years ago and I have enough professional experience and a track record of exceling and advancing within every company I have worked for that I do not need to list my high school job.

Also, please don't assume that I don't have a diversified work history based on one post.

Finally, you are kidding yourself if you truly believe where you go to school only matters for the first job you get after graduation.
 
this is great the FFA has you nubees fighting with each other even before you folks get hired. if you people think that the FFA puts that much thought in it your dead wrong, if they need 50 people theyll just take the next 50 on the list and they do not give a sXXt if you have a MBA or were a fry cook,all they want is bodys so they can show congress how well their scam is working.
 
queeno said:
this is great the FFA has you nubees fighting with each other even before you folks get hired
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Pretty much what I was thinking. Was gonna say something like "Let's just wait and see what happens because the only ones that knows the hiring process are the people who know the hiring process." But what you said sumed it up pretty good.
 
queeno said:
if you people think that the FFA puts that much thought in it your dead wrong, if they need 50 people theyll just take the next 50 on the list and they do not give a sXXt if you have a MBA or were a fry cook,all they want is bodys so they can show congress how well their scam is working.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
 
queeno said:
if you people think that the FFA puts that much thought in it your dead wrong, if they need 50 people theyll just take the next 50 on the list and they do not give a sXXt if you have a MBA or were a fry cook,all they want is bodys so they can show congress how well their scam is working.
Click to expand...


JT ATC said:
:yeahthat:
Click to expand...


Word.

To both.


Oh, yeah... and they (the FAA) are not above lying about it, either. So they may need 50 people, but they might decide to make it look like they only need 25... in which case, half of you are out of luck.
 
brianjgault said:
Holy cow did poor Robert open the floodgates.

Guys, my own take on what Robert is trying to say is that the only variable he is using in his analysis is the AT-SAT score. (i.e. - he is attempting to use the scientific method to "prove" his hypothesis where every other variable is part of the "control" and is the exact same) Thus, I am interpreting his definition of "equal" qualifications as meaning both candidates had the exact same schooling, work history, etc...and the only variable for a selection panel to differentiate a candidate would be the AT-SAT.

Now, practically speaking this will never happen...but I think you guys are using an awful lot of energy trying to "prove" how he's wrong in what he's saying by coming up with scenarios to discredit his observations. Obviously, every candidate is unique and everybody's situation is a little different...but man are some of you getting rubbed the wrong way by this guy's assertions.
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian for trying to explain this to them. All I was trying to say was that the FAA is going to look at your qualifications, preferred location, etc. If ALL of these are equal and two people have no air traffic control background or aviation experience(which most of the people from the general public testing fit into), then the AT SAT is the only way to separate the two people because it is the only 'common' measuring means for determing who gets accepted over another. Most people who applied for the FAA during this past February's job opening have no air traffic experience. I assume most people went to college and have worked progressively more responsible jobs. So the only way to separate them is by using the tens of millions of dollars program known as the AT SAT.
 
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you guys make me laugh, this the FFA your talking about, thies people wouldnt pee if there pants were on fire.
 
wve_iii said:
LOL, you think because someone went to "Northwestern" that makes them more qualified?? What did he/she major in? History? Art? Music? LOL Anyways the FAA really doesnt care what you majored in or where you went. In the private industry what college you went amy have some effect but really only for the first job out of college and when it comes to most govt jobs they really generally dont care they just want to know you meet the requirements. But after your first job, your work experience generally speaks for you and your degree is seen as "B.S. or B.A" and name of college really doesnt matter. A degree shows the same traits as progressive work experience, It shows that you a capable of long term commitment to something (generally you cant finish your degree by being a lazy) which shows them responsibility. Personally if it were me and I have spent all this money developeing this test im going to use it as the indicator as to whether some one has the necessary skills to perform the job. Then Im going to use their experience(work and school) to determine if they are going to have the commitment and motivation to complete the program. Therefore no matter what school you go to or what job you do, if you show a progressive ability to succeed then you probably possess the ability to do so with the FAA as well. Second of all why would it matter what job someone started their career at? I started at Mcdonalds when I was 15 and I am damned proud of it. In fact most people start jobs this way. There is typically a limited number of jobs that are available at this age. Great that you got a job at an accounting company and that its a "Large Corporation" (is it a FORTUNE 500 or anything else special :sarcasm:). But I think that actually your work background is not very diverse, if youve worked for the same company for your entire working career. I would never want to give up starting at Mcdonalds and working my way up through different jobs. I think with a little diversity in your work experience you get to meet alot of different people and see how things are done differently at different places. In fact the working relationships you pick up while changing jobs early in your career are great learning experience. And I bet you wouldnt think of a Wendys manager as a cake job if you had to go deal with teenagers all day.

But overall if youve done great things and went to a great school and your that well qualifiesd for the job. What was your problem with the test. I mean honestly this was a fairly easy exam. I beleive that this test has been thought out pretty thoroughly and a lot of money has been spent on it. So I really dont understand the Person A and Person B comparison. If you are as qualified and good as you say then this should have reflected itsslef in the exam.
Click to expand...

Exactly...the FAA doesn't care where you went to school as long as you went to school and showed the ability to make it through and commit to bettering yourself. They don't have a copy of the Princeton Review sitting next to them so they can flip through it to find where your school ranks in terms of academics or classroom experience.

In the private industry, it definitely matters where you went to school because certain schools traditional tend to produce better works for certain fields. The FAA doesn't care at all where you went to school. If someone has a degree from Stanford and another has one from Florida State, they are both equally qualified because they both have colllege degrees.

Being in charge of a lot of people in a business has nothing to do with the FAA unless you are going into management. The FAA cares about who can control air traffic safely and efficiently. The AT SAT is their way of determining who is better capable of doing that. Just because someone went to Harvard and ran a Fortune 500 company that means nothing to the FAA if they scored a 75 on the AT SAT. Yes, they showed great qualifications in other fields, but they didn't perform well on a FAA standardized test.

You also can't assume that someone who went to (ex. GSU) wasn't able to get into a better school. Some people choose certain schools for sports, scholarships, budget. I personally wouldn't be getting into government work if I had over $100K in student loans because I went to a private and/or out of state school. I know you weren't assuming, but just because you have a degree from NW, it doesn't mean that you are more capable of being an air traffic controller.

The FAA is going to have a checklist for people with no air traffic experience:
Age requirement- check
College Degree- check
Progressively more responsible work experience- check
AT SAT score-?
Preferred region to work-?

If you have air traffic experience (contractor, military controller, etc.) your AT SAT doesn't matter as much since 1/3 of the people accepted last year had previous aviation experience. You can probably get by with a 80 or so if you were a controller for the military.
If you went to a CTI school, you are going to have a better chance of getting in because of your aviation background and/or degree. Roughly 1,000 people were hired this way last year. Most of these people don't even have to worry about the AT SAT since their school notifies the FAA of their exceptional ability while they are still in school.
That leaves roughly 200 spots for people with no air traffic experience and the only way to separate these people is by using the common factor, the AT SAT...
 
queeno said:
...if there pants were on fire.
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That's how you can tell that they're lying! :D


That... or if they issue a press release... or if they say something through a spokesperson... or if they publish a slick brochure... or if they say something to congress... or...
 
Hey guys, I'm new to this site. Thought I would check it out because I am supposed to be taking the ATSAT on 4/28. I applied 2/15. it was a month before I heard anything. I have applied for a government job before and it takes forever to process. They will let you know what they decide to do with you eventually. Until then there is no use speculating and arguing...
 
RobertB said:
If you have air traffic experience (contractor, military controller, etc.) your AT SAT doesn't matter as much since 1/3 of the people accepted last year had previous aviation experience. You can probably get by with a 80 or so if you were a controller for the military.
Click to expand...

We don't even take the AT-SAT. :bandit:
 
Charlee said:
I got put on a referral list in 09/07 about a week or so after taking the the AT-SAT. It wasn't until 01/08 that OKC notified me that I would be contacted for an interview. I didn't get contacted until 02/08 to schedule my interview. Then about 2 weeks after my interview I got a tentative offer. Basically there is ALOT of waiting in between stages. Patience is definitely key in this process!
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Was your offer for the location you wanted?
 
RobertB said:
The FAA is going to have a checklist for people with no air traffic experience:
Age requirement- check
College Degree- check
Progressively more responsible work experience- check
AT SAT score-?
Preferred region to work-?

That leaves roughly 200 spots for people with no air traffic experience and the only way to separate these people is by using the common factor, the AT SAT...
Click to expand...

Absolutely, 100% not true. The FAA does not use a "topdown" approach in regards to the AT SAT. Please read the following from an FAA report on the Operational use of ATSAT...

To further address the potential problem of adverse impact, FAA officials decided to abandon a strict “topdown” approach to hiring and, instead, use a category ranking method. This approach is a form of “score banding” that can be justified on the basis of ignoring score differences that are due to an estimate of the applicant’s true ability. Score banding, although somewhat controversial among selection scientists, “will almost always produce less adverse impact than strict rank ordering” (Biddle, 2005, p. 103) as it ignores score differences likely to be statistically insignificant. Under this scheme, job fair applicants who achieve a qualifying minimum score are divided into two groups: those scoring 85 and above (termed “well qualified”) and those scoring from 70 to 84.9 (termed “qualified”). Those in the “well-qualified” group will be offered employment before anyone in the “qualified” group.

http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/faa/am/AM07-14.pdf
 
rctaber said:
Absolutely, 100% not true. The FAA does not use a "topdown" approach in regards to the AT SAT. Please read the following from an FAA report on the Operational use of ATSAT...

To further address the potential problem of adverse impact, FAA officials decided to abandon a strict “topdown” approach to hiring and, instead, use a category ranking method. This approach is a form of “score banding” that can be justified on the basis of ignoring score differences that are due to an estimate of the applicant’s true ability. Score banding, although somewhat controversial among selection scientists, “will almost always produce less adverse impact than strict rank ordering” (Biddle, 2005, p. 103) as it ignores score differences likely to be statistically insignificant. Under this scheme, job fair applicants who achieve a qualifying minimum score are divided into two groups: those scoring 85 and above (termed “well qualified”) and those scoring from 70 to 84.9 (termed “qualified”). Those in the “well-qualified” group will be offered employment before anyone in the “qualified” group.

http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/faa/am/AM07-14.pdf
Click to expand...

I read that report before and still don't believe all of it. There is no way to separate people with the same qualifications, geographic preferences, education, etc. without at least looking at the AT SAT scores. If two people have the same qualifications and geographic preference, but scored differently on the AT SAT, are they just going to flip a coin to see who gets the job?
 
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