Techniques of the Professional Airline Pilot

[WalterSobchak]

Just a general statement.

For the love of frozen concentrated orange juice, what the hell is this thread even about now?!

I would like some juice.

It's about not agreeing with the all of the original post making you a "Professional Airline Pilot" which means do your job safely and effectively.
Being a professional airline pilot doesn't include a lot of the fluff that FlyChicaga posted. Some of that actually takes away from why we got into the profession i.e. being Aircraft Cleaners, FA's, Gate Agents, Ramp/Ground Crew etc. Every one has a responsibilty and it's not the CA's responsibility to do every one elses job. It is his(her) responsiblility to make sure things that affect the flight are done. This can be done by calling Ops who coordinates said responsibilities. Leaving the cockpit and passing out water is rediculous. That is what the FA is paid to do....Attend the flight. Section 4.1 B in our FOM covers the duties of the PIC and 4.1 C covers the duties of the SIC. No where in there does it say Use the CSA's mic to make a PA announcement or to help the FA in the back that is why both of those people have a job.

During Flight(When the door is shut and brake is dropped)time, the pilot in command of an aircraft is responsible for command of the aircraft and crew and for the safety of passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.

Doing other peoples jobs in time other than flight can make you tired and frustrated which takes way from your duties. Safety and Legality are what makes a professional airline pilot.

 

[Qgar]

The incident over Hawaii involved Go! airlines, GoJet is a different airline. Just wanted to put that on here seems a few people are confused about it.

Oops, thanks for clarifying that, Snuggle! In any case, I still can't figure the whole thing out. The dots just don't connect for me.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I would like some juice.

It's about not agreeing with the all of the original post making you a "Professional Airline Pilot" which means do your job safely and effectively.
Being a professional airline pilot doesn't include a lot of the fluff that FlyChicaga posted. Some of that actually takes away from why we got into the profession i.e. being Aircraft Cleaners, FA's, Gate Agents, Ramp/Ground Crew etc. Every one has a responsibilty and it's not the CA's responsibility to do every one elses job. It is his(her) responsiblility to make sure things that affect the flight are done. This can be done by calling Ops who coordinates said responsibilities. Leaving the cockpit and passing out water is rediculous. That is what the FA is paid to do....Attend the flight. Section 4.1 B in our FOM covers the duties of the PIC and 4.1 C covers the duties of the SIC. No where in there does it say Use the CSA's mic to make a PA announcement or to help the FA in the back that is why both of those people have a job.

During Flight(When the door is shut and brake is dropped)time, the pilot in command of an aircraft is responsible for command of the aircraft and crew and for the safety of passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.

Doing other peoples jobs in time other than flight can make you tired and frustrated which takes way from your duties. Safety and Legality are what makes a professional airline pilot.

:yeahthat: Great post.

 

[B767Driver]

Doesn't make sense to me as an outsider. It makes you appear to have a distorted and myopic view of the pilot profession as a whole.

.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me as an insider. I'm 37 with 11,000 hours of flying time, 3 Part 121 airlines, 2 Part 135 outfits, Part 91 corporate time and 2,000 hours as a CFI. No military time. In my observation, there's not a lot of difference in the pilot groups across borders. Some minor differences in duties...but essentially the same skill set.

Some people, however, do try to set themselves apart for whatever reason. I don't believe some of these guys are trying to "knock" non-airline pilots. However, that's the impression one is left with.

Some of it reminds me of the South Park character, Eric Cartman, as he turns red in the face and screams, "Respect my authority!"

If the flight deck duties are done, I see no harm in doing some minor customer service duties. I enjoy walking little old ladies up the jetway for a waiting wheel chair from time to time. If I had more pressing things to do, I'd have to pass. But I definitely do not feel as though I denigrate or demean my profession. If anything, it improves the image of my profession somewhat. I've never felt as though my company expects this type of service nor requires it. I can just as well make a call to get this type of thing done.

I do not get the impression that FlyChicaga is advocating these duties as SOP...but casual and occasional occurrences. I see nothing wrong with what he advocates and definitely do not see a bad attitude in the mix.

Walking to my mailbox yesterday and pulling out my union trade magazine with a 17 year old in a pilot's uniform doesn't do much for me or the appearance of my profession, though.

 

[Animal]

I agree I didn't sign up to toss bags.....I did that full time for six years while going to college to afford flight school, and serve drinks........well I didn't get a college education to be a flight attendent either.

 

[Animal]

I agree Walter......Thats why they are attendents.....in flight!!! Wow doesn't the title make sense.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me as an insider. I'm 37 with 11,000 hours of flying time, 3 Part 121 airlines, 2 Part 135 outfits, Part 91 corporate time and 2,000 hours as a CFI. No military time. In my observation, there's not a lot of difference in the pilot groups across borders. Some minor differences in duties...but essentially the same skill set.

Some people, however, do try to set themselves apart for whatever reason. I don't believe some of these guys are trying to "knock" non-airline pilots. However, that's the impression one is left with.

Some of it reminds me of the South Park character, Eric Cartman, as he turns red in the face and screams, "Respect my authority!"

If the flight deck duties are done, I see no harm in doing some minor customer service duties. I enjoy walking little old ladies up the jetway for a waiting wheel chair from time to time. If I had more pressing things to do, I'd have to pass. But I definitely do not feel as though I denigrate or demean my profession. If anything, it improves the image of my profession somewhat. I've never felt as though my company expects this type of service nor requires it. I can just as well make a call to get this type of thing done.

I do not get the impression that FlyChicaga is advocating these duties as SOP...but casual and occasional occurrences. I see nothing wrong with what he advocates and definitely do not see a bad attitude in the mix.

Walking to my mailbox yesterday and pulling out my union trade magazine with a 17 year old in a pilot's uniform doesn't do much for me or the appearance of my profession, though.

This is how we got off track. Techniques of the Professional Airline Pilot is the title of the thread.

Differences which include being a CSA,Ramper,FA being part of the jobfor GA, 135 stuff and not being part of 121. Every one has the same skill set in the cockpit. However outside of it is where the BS is different. Some people like being a limo driver, some people like being a cab driver, some people like being a truck driver, and others like being a city bus driver. You all drive, but what you do when you aren't driving is vastly different. If you like getting to know your customers and haul their bags there is a job for you. If you hate people and want to only fly boxes there is a job for you. If you want to fly a plane with your main responsibility being safety and focus on flying there is a job for you.

I feel with the title being 'Techniques of the Professional Airline Pilot' he is advocating THE professional airline pilot does all these extra things on a regular basis. To me it sounds to much like coporate aviation. That is my interpretation. I disagree that most of that has anything to do with making you a PROFESSIONAL airline pilot.

Allowing regionals to have jets in the first place is the reason there is a 17 year old in a uniform. Thats why its important for those at the top not to degrade it so much that when the next generation gets there there is something left. Part of that goes with what PCL is saying. If you keep giving management the cheep ticket out they will keep finding ways to make you pay for it.

 

[derg]

I'll get strollers, push wheelchairs, help with some minor customer service issues and try to do little more than simply sit there and stare at the terminal before the door closes. But I think most folks at my airline are like that.

I think it makes for a much more pleasurable experience for the customers.

 

[Animal]

Doug....wait till the merge happens....

 

[Animal]

Not saying u won't continue those things I just hope morale around DL/NWA won't suffer.

 

[jtrain609]

I'll get strollers, push wheelchairs, help with some minor customer service issues and try to do little more than simply sit there and stare at the terminal before the door closes. But I think most folks at my airline are like that.

I think it makes for a much more pleasurable experience for the customers.

But you're destroying the industry! Who cares that your pilot group fought off a merger attempt and you've got some of the best pay and work rules in the industry, in addition to having one of the best customer experiences out there.

And I should know, I spend about 9 hours a week in the back of a widget 757 going to and from work and they treat their non revs and customers alike amazingly, and I've ridden on a few carriers in my time.

Speaking of, Doug, when are you going to bid SLC 757 captain so you can give me a ride to work?

 

[derg]

No, no bids yet!

I think it really depends on the personality of the person in question.

There ARE some that think the alpha and the omega of their job is simply flying airplanes, I really don't have a problem with that because they may not be very good with customer service issues or whatnot.

I don't have a problem going a little above and beyond, primarily because I think we have a better product than a lot of other airlines and I want to help maintain that. We're certainly not the best, but I think we're better than some if maybe even most.

I purchased a ticket on another airline a few weeks ago for a little weekend getaway. The flight was late, there was no announcement. When boarding began, there was no indication, just a big crowd gathers around the podium and people start moving through the door. The aircraft wasn't very clean. The terminals on both ends were dirty.... It was a pretty lackluster experience as a customer.

Everyone seemed on edge and it made me a little nervous.

I'm as angry as the next guy at management, the industry, massive pay and benefit cuts, continuing attacks against the profession and whatnot, but I figure when I suit up, I'm going to do the best job I can and try to provide customers (when given the opportunity) a little more than only a seat from point-a to point-b.

There isn't any possibility of foregoing or bending my contract, but if a passenger is waiting for a wheelchair and I've got a moment, I'll bring one down. I think my dad would roll over in his grave if I told someone, "Ohh, that's someone else's job, beacon's off and the door's open."

But that's just me. AYMMV! (All ya'lls mileage may vary)

 

[Firebird2XC]

BE1900 FO = Builds character

Agreed. However, 'character' is not an item of set quantity or value given as compensation for work. ie, it does not pay the rent, buy groceries, etc.

I was saying he's even more underpaid than the rest of us, and therefore, is among the first and most deserving of a pay raise.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

There isn't any possibility of foregoing or bending my contract, but if a passenger is waiting for a wheelchair and I've got a moment, I'll bring one down. I think my dad would roll over in his grave if I told someone, "Ohh, that's someone else's job, beacon's off and the door's open."

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you do such a thing. When I see that our passengers are waiting for a wheelchair, I say "hold on (ma'am/sir), and I'll go find a customer service agent that can help you." Someone else is paid to push the wheelchair. I'll be happy to go find them to tell them that their services are required, but I'm not doing their job.

 

[Snuggle]

Do major airlines ask questions about customer service during the pilot interviews?

I.E.

''Tell us about a time you went out of your way to help a passenger?''

I'm trying to figure out what they view as techniques of a professional pilot in this sense.

 

[derg]

Do major airlines ask questions about customer service during the pilot interviews?

I.E.

''Tell us about a time you went out of your way to help a passenger?''

I'm trying to figure out what they view as techniques of a professional pilot in this sense.

Did during mine.

It's posed like "The plane's late, dirty and cabin cleaners haven't arrived yet..."

The hilarious part of the scenario was that I was working for an airline then where the FO (and rarely the CA) cleaned the aircraft between legs and crossed seatbelts.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to clean a 76, but I'm going to be surely be on the horn to operations to determine what the ETA of cabin service is and call them back if it's not done correctly.

Here's a little trivia. Part of my job scope when I fly "relief" is to make sure the lavatories are fully serviced and the water tanks are full. Some aircraft don't have an indicator of the dookie quantity so we need a specifically-worded verbal confirmation from operations.

Lots of planes end up landing short of the destination because the toilets overflow. Dats naaaaashty.

 

[derg]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you do such a thing. When I see that our passengers are waiting for a wheelchair, I say "hold on (ma'am/sir), and I'll go find a customer service agent that can help you." Someone else is paid to push the wheelchair. I'll be happy to go find them to tell them that their services are required, but I'm not doing their job.

That cool, I haven't a problem with that at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm saying what --->I<--- do, not necessarily what everyone should do.

But an interesting opportunity for a 'confessional' here.

Whenever I was in ATL and I'd end up bringing down a wheelchair or going out in the rain to retrieve a stroller because the ground pounders were a little slow, I'd always say, "Fly Delta! Air Tran guys probably wouldn't do this! "

In Baltimore, substitute SWA

In DFW, substitute AA

In PHX, substitute HP

etc... I'm serious! Even got a honor roll pass that I haven't used yet for when a customer wrote a happygram to my chief pilot!

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to clean a 76, but I'm going to be surely be on the horn to operations to determine what the ETA of cabin service is and call them back if it's not done correctly.

Exactly!!! That's exactly what pilots should be doing. Doing the cleaning yourself is ridiculous, but calling to get it done is perfectly reasonable (except when engaged in contentious contract negotiations, of course ). I'm not saying that you should just stare out the window. If the plane hasn't been cleaned or catered, call ops. If the windshield needs cleaned, call MX. If a passenger needs a wheelchair, find a CSA. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[Snuggle]

Here's a little trivia. Part of my job scope when I fly "relief" is to make sure the lavatories are fully serviced and the water tanks are full. Some aircraft don't have an indicator of the dookie quantity so we need a specifically-worded verbal confirmation from operations.

Lots of planes end up landing short of the destination because the toilets overflow. Dats naaaaashty.

Yea the 1900 is a lot easier to clean then a 767. I was talking to Seggy once and he suggested some tips to easily recall all my interactions with customers (recording them in a notebook and such). I was curious what the majors were looking for and what they actually ask.

Thanks for the trivia, I learned something new... yuck.

 

[Cptnchia]

Did during mine.

It's posed like "The plane's late, dirty and cabin cleaners haven't arrived yet..."

Same for me. The question was posed as, "Tell us about a time you engaged a customer outside of your normal duties." That is one thing Southernjets looks for, people who are willing to go a little further than your average to help someone out. If you are the kind to hold doors open, smile at strangers and say, "Good Morning, etc." you will be OK.