Teaching power off 180's

When I had to do power off 180s when I did my commercial years ago it wasn't a big deal because that's how my instructor taught me to land since my first landing as a student. The idea was that while in the pattern you should never be outside gliding range of the runway. I still believe in that approach in most GA airplanes. Abeam the numbers carb heat on and power idle is how it should be taught.
 
Inverted25 said:
When I had to do power off 180s when I did my commercial years ago it wasn't a big deal because that's how my instructor taught me to land since my first landing as a student. The idea was that while in the pattern you should never be outside gliding range of the runway. I still believe in that approach in most GA airplanes. Abeam the numbers carb heat on and power idle is how it should be taught.
Click to expand...
Try that in a PA32 flying pax and let me know how it works out for you.
 
Roger Roger said:
Try that in a PA32 flying pax and let me know how it works out for you.
Click to expand...
Again I said most GA aircraft there are exceptions. But I have seen some instructors who teach the students to drag the airplane in with a bunch of unneeded power. That is a recipe for disaster if you have a engine failure flying that kind of pattern.
 
One way I like to do is leave the flaps up. This lets you come in a little quicker, higher because you can get a pretty sweet slip in. Plus, if you need just a pinch of altitude you can put one notch of flaps in (talking Cessna here, haven't tried but wouldnt see why it wouldn't work in something else) and you get a little bit of altitude, but then your slowing down so you'll need to correct and push the nose down....seems to work for me.
 
Always wondered why the civilian side never really taught the military High Key/Low Key... just did Power-Off 180s.
 
I recently had the flip side of the equation. I transitioned a student who had finished his private flying a Citabria with all approaches being power off to flying a C172. It was interesting because he now had to learn how to use power to change a descent rate and how flaps changed the equation. I was surprised how easily it came to him. Just something else to add the the equation. All to say, start simple and add complexity later.
 
I've noticed that most students can judge the glide but are afraid to get low with no power, so they come in 100 feet high to make up for it. You don't want to be too low, but you can milk a flair plenty if you drop a little because of turbulence. This usually brings out another bad habit acquired during private training, landing too flat.
 
I logged 2 hrs in a arrow this morning working towards my commercial. The power off 180 is the biggest thing I am worried about. When we pulled the power on the arrow it just drops like a rock. We only tried one but I had to abort it just because there was no way I was going to make the field.

Another quick question.....what altitude AGL do you have to be to get 3 full turns in Witt a steep,spiral in an arrow? Today when I was doing mine we started it at about 4k feet but I only got 2 turns in. I was holding about a 45 To 50 degree angle of bank and the plane was dropping like a rock, we were coming down at least at1500 feet a minute and I was nailing the best glide speed the entire way down.

Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Not really that standard, but it is how I do it and try to teach it to my students after they can do it the more traditional way. But power out abeam the point and about a half rudder slip (SLIP, not skid, it is amazing how many people skid around turns thinking that they are slipping...) all the way around using more/less slip and a constant slow turn to the touchdown point. I hate using flaps for these power off accuracy landings becaus you can't bring them back up once you put them down without falling out of the sky. A slip takes away that issue. I you are low you can let out some rudder and now you aren't low anymore. There is always a notch of flaps available give you the extra lift to float you a few feet to the point if you end up a hair low.

I never lose power-off 180 contests either do I spoolinup22? Haha
 
ryan1234 said:
Always wondered why the civilian side never really taught the military High Key/Low Key... just did Power-Off 180s.
Click to expand...

No need to really have set points like that, since GA planes don't have the horrendous descent rates that fighters do, where meeting certain specific parameters at specific points, is paramount.
 
MikeD said:
No need to really have set points like that, since GA planes don't have the horrendous descent rates that fighters do, where meeting certain specific parameters at specific points, is paramount.
Click to expand...

That and the Viper is probably about the only FW military airplane (outside of the various training command a/c) that uses the military high/low key profile anymore. It was fun to do in the T-45, but it has really no utility in operational military flying.
 
///AMG said:
That and the Viper is probably about the only FW military airplane (outside of the various training command a/c) that uses the military high/low key profile anymore. It was fun to do in the T-45, but it has really no utility in operational military flying.
Click to expand...

You think the F-35 will?
 
tlewis95 said:
Not really that standard, but it is how I do it and try to teach it to my students after they can do it the more traditional way. But power out abeam the point and about a half rudder slip (SLIP, not skid, it is amazing how many people skid around turns thinking that they are slipping...) all the way around using more/less slip and a constant slow turn to the touchdown point. I hate using flaps for these power off accuracy landings becaus you can't bring them back up once you put them down without falling out of the sky. A slip takes away that issue. I you are low you can let out some rudder and now you aren't low anymore. There is always a notch of flaps available give you the extra lift to float you a few feet to the point if you end up a hair low.

I never lose power-off 180 contests either do I spoolinup22? Haha
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to try that!
 
Muff3n said:
I logged 2 hrs in a arrow this morning working towards my commercial. The power off 180 is the biggest thing I am worried about. When we pulled the power on the arrow it just drops like a rock. We only tried one but I had to abort it just because there was no way I was going to make the field.

Another quick question.....what altitude AGL do you have to be to get 3 full turns in Witt a steep,spiral in an arrow? Today when I was doing mine we started it at about 4k feet but I only got 2 turns in. I was holding about a 45 To 50 degree angle of bank and the plane was dropping like a rock, we were coming down at least at1500 feet a minute and I was nailing the best glide speed the entire way down.

Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The Arrow really does glide like a brick. Pretty much have to turn for the numbers as soon as you pull the power back. After doing my CFI in the Arrow I jumped in a Warrior and couldn't believe how much different the power off 180 is between the two. For steep spirals I would aim for 89 knots so I could use 60 degrees of bank at the steepest point without worrying about stalling. Increased rate of turn = smaller radius and less time to complete a turn. Remember, a steep spiral is performed so you end up at a key position to make a landing. You don't need the gliding distance 79 knots gives you since you are over the field. Usually lost around 800-900 feet with each 360 degree turn.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top