Teaching older students.

rframe

rframe

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So, it's no surprise that older students (say 40 and older) are "generally" slower learners than younger flight students. I dont think it has anything to do with slower minds or anything, I think it's simply that the 15-25 year old is accustomed to acquiring a lot of knowledge because they've spent most of their life in school, and even the bio-mechanics of learning to fly come easier because they are used to learning new movements (sports, video games, etc).

I have a couple older students and it's very different teaching them than it is with the younger guys and currently I'm trying to give them very specific reading information and videos related to upcoming lessons so they can get multiple exposures to the material, and I'm starting to reduce the number of items I cover in a lesson, giving each area more time for exposure and practice.

Any other tips on things I can do to help "older" students maximize their learning efforts?

I dont want to be disrespectful or suggest that I'm "dumbing it down" in any way, I'm just trying to build a learning program most appropriate to the way each student learns.
 
Just slow it down a bit. It's not age, it's experience and distractions.

A 40-year old with a full-time career and a family to care for and worry about simply doesn't have either the time or inclination to give flight training the same high priority as a footloose youngster.

It's not a matter of dumbing down. I've found a lot of folks much younger than me have far more trouble than I do processing and learning new information.
 
I appreciate the input, but in this case that's not really the situation. Actually my younger students work full-time and one has a side business too, so they are very busy. Of the older students, one is fully retired and has all the time in the world and is studying very hard each day, the other is a single professional with lots of spare time. They are both working hard with their studies and doing a good job but there's a much slower uptake up of the motor skills and understanding of what's happening with the airplane. The older students are both intelligent and accomplished people, it's just that learning the motor skills seems to be coming much slower and I'm hoping to find ways to help them focus and build skill in smaller increments, while the younger students just kind of "get it" after one demo and talk through. I just want to be sure I'm approaching it the right way so I dont waste their time.
 
This is a good thread and I have my $.02 being an older student (35) who successfully finished military flight training and will attend college after this point and fly as a civilian student. I'll post later on as I am a bit busy right now but I have seen examples of it in the military and I want to talk about how military dealt with those students. Be right back

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rframe said:
I appreciate the input, but in this case that's not really the situation. Actually my younger students work full-time and one has a side business too, so they are very busy. Of the older students, one is fully retired and has all the time in the world and is studying very hard each day, the other is a single professional with lots of spare time. They are both working hard with their studies and doing a good job but there's a much slower uptake up of the motor skills and understanding of what's happening with the airplane. The older students are both intelligent and accomplished people, it's just that learning the motor skills seems to be coming much slower and I'm hoping to find ways to help them focus and build skill in smaller increments, while the younger students just kind of "get it" after one demo and talk through. I just want to be sure I'm approaching it the right way so I dont waste their time.
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With "older" students it can just take a loooong time and lots of repetition before their AH HA! moments... No matter how hard they try or how bad they want it, it just takes a while for everything to come together. Once its there, it usually sticks.

What I found often in teaching middle aged (and beyond) men is they tend to get down on them selves pretty easily. How they show it, all depends on their personality.

I had a student who was the same age as me (30 at the time) and all through life he was good at everything he did. He quit flying before he soloed. Great study habits. His air work was good and he wasn't taking any longer to learn to land than anyone else.. But HE thought so. He mentally kicked his own ass so bad there was absolutely zero improvement. He was running out of money, so he decided to take a week off. He never came back. All the CFI pep talks in the world won't help if the student doesn't want it bad enough.
 
With your older students, is it mostly the material that they are not getting or is it mostly that the airplane is flying them instead of them flying the airplane, longer reaction times, like you say motor skills, etc? I had a friend in the AH-64 course who was around 26-27 and a very mellow, laid back fella. He was slow to understand, slow to react. We started the course and lo and behold he got paired with a notoriously high strung instructor who was always on the go... Not surprisingly, my buddy started struggling, 3 unsats, he was given a progress checkride, failed, first set of extra training hours, another 3 unsats, another progress ride, failed again, by then he was so behind, they bumped him down from the class and that did the trick, he got a new instructor. Now, his concern was that he had 20 more weeks of intense Apache flying left and had no extra hours if he messed up at any point. Didn't happen, the IP approached him the way he had to be, lots of two way conversations, assignments, and "let's do that again" maneuvers, he graduated. Now military flying has a narrower error margin in flying, they really don't have time for you if you are not trying, or simply if you are not "getting it". I had a 37 year old friend in primary phase with Bell 206s, he flew just fine but he couldn't memorize emergency procedures and limitations. I would go over with one particular EP with him, it would take 3-4 tries for him to spell it out, and we would move on to next one, it would take another 3-4 times on that one, and just for the hell of it, I would go back to the EP we just done, he would have already forgotten it. They eliminated him very quickly.

Putting all this military experience into perspective and having not much civilian experience, reading what you are doing for your students here, I can say that I wish you were my instructor. Of course military flying is not the same as recreational flying, if that is what these older students of yours are after and most importantly they are paying for it, but you maybe try to be a little blunt about what you expect from them, of course very tactfully, unlike military IPs, :) and see if they are concerned. There are expected timeframes for students to accomplish a task, you may remind them that. Another option would be like military does, to try them with a different instructor, like on a progride, and see how they react to that. Students who had motor skill or reaction issues in my group were always sent to training devices or simulators to do it again and again. Maybe repetition after repetition will help. Again, I think you should speak with them about your concerns and work towards a solution with their input. I was stressed out throughout the entire AH-64 course because of what was expected out of me but it really paid off during check rides. I hope I was of help just a bit.
 
It also has to do with the different stages the human brain goes through at different ages. Older brains are easier to distract, however they tend to be better at grasping the big picture. If you can alter your teaching methods to suit this you will see improvement. Repetition helps the older folks a lot, almost to the point of insanity, but it does work!

Here is a cool article on the subject
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/education/edlife/03adult-t.html
 
TWP said:
It also has to do with the different stages the human brain goes through at different ages. Older brains are easier to distract, however they tend to be better at grasping the big picture. If you can alter your teaching methods to suit this you will see improvement. Repetition helps the older folks a lot, almost to the point of insanity, but it does work!

Here is a cool article on the subject
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/education/edlife/03adult-t.html
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I dunno. I know young students with ADHD and they are horrible in terms of losing concentration, laughing like Beavis and Butthead and being all emo emotional, pouting etc... especially new generations. Older people tend to have slower metabolisms and hence they tend to be on the "wisdom curve" of thinking. Although I have had some pretty loopy older student too. Think of whales and piranhas. Whales are like big boats, they need their sonar and to look miles and miles ahead for steering and food source. That is why they have a higher form of intelligence. Piranahs are more tactical and local survival brain, with a much higher rate of processing but a smaller processor on the look out on a short time basis. An older person might need an in depth brief and vision of things before implementing, whereas the younger student will know nothing but be quick to grab the controls and get it, at least on the short term end of things. The building blocks of learning for younger people are better when small because they will start yawning at the big picture.

Rather than old or young, it is good to know whether they did alcohol, drugs or nerve pills in the past. That is the main problem with some older people. People fry their brains and they act very sensitive. And when it comes to learning and then enjoying flying, it must be reinforced and the vision of what lies ahead must continuously be reinforced.

Old people do love to be repeated. That is a memory problem. They just need to move it to muscle or subconscious memory. It helps them in the effort. Also older people do not react emotionaly the same. The LAW of intensity does not work with them. Things that go bang do not phase them much... besides some of them are deaf to begin with.
 
AirTorquer said:
I dunno. I know young students with ADHD and they are horrible in terms of losing concentration, laughing like Beavis and Butthead and being all emo emotional, pouting etc... especially new generations. Older people tend to have slower metabolisms and hence they tend to be on the "wisdom curve" of thinking. Although I have had some pretty loopy older student too. Think of whales and piranhas. Whales are like big boats, they need their sonar and to look miles and miles ahead for steering and food source. That is why they have a higher form of intelligence. Piranahs are more tactical and local survival brain, with a much higher rate of processing but a smaller processor on the look out on a short time basis. An older person might need an in depth brief and vision of things before implementing, whereas the younger student will know nothing but be quick to grab the controls and get it, at least on the short term end of things. The building blocks of learning for younger people are better when small because they will start yawning at the big picture.

Rather than old or young, it is good to know whether they did alcohol, drugs or nerve pills in the past. That is the main problem with some older people. People fry their brains and they act very sensitive. And when it comes to learning and then enjoying flying, it must be reinforced and the vision of what lies ahead must continuously be reinforced.

Old people do love to be repeated. That is a memory problem. They just need to move it to muscle or subconscious memory. It helps them in the effort. Also older people do not react emotionaly the same. The LAW of intensity does not work with them. Things that go bang do not phase them much... besides some of them are deaf to begin with.
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I agree. Really, you just cannot tell how somebody is going to be until you've been in the plane with them a few hours. You have rules and then exceptions to the rules!
 
My personal experience was the older students invariably had my most sincere respect. They would tell me about how they always wanted to fly. How they had perhaps had a few hours in a Piper Cub as a youngster. Then life happened. They got married and took on the responsibility of a family or they went into a military that paid less than minimum wage. Now, after being responsible citizens and good family men all their life, the last kid is out of college and they could finally spend a little money on something for themselves.

The learning does come slower because there are a whole lot of years where life was only experienced in two dimensions. The daring persona of youth has passed along with the notion of invincibility. Their steps forward are taken more slowly and cautiously, but with great determination and seriousness.

I tried to give my very best to each of my students but with the older students I felt an increased sense of responsibility because I understood where they had been and what they had done while postponing their desire to fly. I think that if you look at your older student in that light that your efforts will be recognized and rewarded by a safe, responsible, and appreciative student.
 
With my older students who are learning to fly because its fun, I try my best to keep it fun. I try to keep pace with training them, but I like to throw in a "fun" flight even now and again. My 'fun" flights consist of flying somewhere for breakfast or lunch. After all this is why they are learning to fly so why not keep them excited about it every now and again.
 
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