Teaching landing tips?

av8or91

av8or91

Well-Known Member
I have two students who I just cant seem to grasp the flare of a landing. I talk about the aiming point and touchdown point and Ive been trying to come up with a good way to explain to my students of when to flare. Today after doing 37 total landings with my both my students I have only been able to come to one conclusion. I notice that as we start to get closer to the runway, the centerline stripes start to appear as one straight line. I tried emphasizing this but had little affect. I flew above the runway right at the point where the flare should take place and what it looks like. Any simple plain tips that I can pass along to my two students who have english a second language and have never driven a car? (Taxiing is a whole other story but thats getting better) Thanks alot.:)
 
My problem was always not looking down at the end of the runway. I always loved to stare right over the nose down at the runway. Every time I caught myself doing that and looked at the right place, flares were perfect. If they feel uncomfortable transitioning their eyes up a bit (and they probably wont admit that), have them hold the controls while you do a landing and they can see what it looks/feels like to look down the runway without having to worry about the landing.
 
Clocks said:
My problem was always not looking down at the end of the runway. I always loved to stare right over the nose down at the runway. Every time I caught myself doing that and looked at the right place, flares were perfect. If they feel uncomfortable transitioning their eyes up a bit (and they probably wont admit that), have them hold the controls while you do a landing and they can see what it looks/feels like to look down the runway without having to worry about the landing.
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That exactly where I have been telling them too look. I have caught one of them looking at the side window in the cessna at the tire and watching the ground come up. :banghead:
I have let one fly with a more experienced instructor but he had the same results with him.
 
As you know, sometimes it just takes longer for them to get it in their own time; since you are actively trying, I wouldn't sweat it. They will get it when they get it.

I personally like having them do slow flight down the whole runway in this situation.
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The centerline turning into a more solid line the closer you get is a good one that I have never heard before. Thanks.
 
I like to teach my students to level off in ground effect I guess about 10 feet off the ground...when the arse of the airplane starts to sink continue to fly it into the ground well slowly pulling the yoke back. Seems to be working pretty well.
 
jhugz said:
I like to teach my students to level off in ground effect I guess about 10 feet off the ground...when the arse of the airplane starts to sink continue to fly it into the ground well slowly pulling the yoke back. Seems to be working pretty well.
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How do you explain 10 feet off the ground? Sometimes they will flare too high which is probably because they are looking 5 feet in front of the nose or not flare at all.

Thanks for the input. Both of them have close to 60 landings so yea it may take longer but im just getting frustrated.
 
Usually after doing it once myself where they are just watching the site picture then doing it once again were they talk me through the round-out and flare the two new students I have had so far don't seem to have a problem judging the height to start the round-out. The problems I have seem to be airspeed control, center-line, and wanting to transition from the decent to the flare with no level off period which of course calls for a ballon.

O & BTW can someone explain to me how me saying add power to a student they interpret it to meaning don't add power but pitch back some more. I don't think I have ever been then slow on final before except of course the actually touchdown.
 
jhugz said:
O & BTW can someone explain to me how me saying add power to a student they interpret it to meaning don't add power but pitch back some more. I don't think I have ever been then slow on final before except of course the actually touchdown.
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I experienced the exact same thing except they would reduce power but I thought it was just a language barrier.
 
ppragman said:
I'm usually not even awake for that. It's just "squeak squeak," "HEY! WE MADE IT!":sarcasm:
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Have a engine monitoring system? Or a nice GPS?
Push a couple of buttons during cruise. Chances are you will scare yourself to stay awake long enough to witness the landing... :D

I have made it a habit to frequently locate, push or pull handles knobs and buttons until the blood pressure is up again...;)

If nothing helps, I'll pull the Emergency Manual and start reading it aloud. That helps making the pax feel very squeezy, which usually makes me laugh. Laughing helps a lot with staying alert too.
 
I think a lot of students just ignore you when you say "look down the runway instead of at the spot you want to hit." I know I used to, because I was afraid of what would happen by looking somewhere that didn't seem like a good place to be looking at the time. What works for me is to tell your student, "Okay...look down the runway and use the sides to judge your height, etc. I don't care how terrible this landing is...I'll make sure we're safe, so don't worry about it. All I want you to do is try out the technique." Seems to work pretty well.

As has been suggested, fly low in ground effect down the entire length of the runway. The more time spent there, the greater the student's ability to judge height above the runway. Have them do several laps down the runway just in ground effect, and then tell them "Okay, now we're going to do the same thing. Get it in ground effect, but this time pull the power to idle, and try to keep the airplane just off the runway as long as you can, but don't let it climb out of the ground effect." This seems to work well as a transition for students having trouble with the flare because it breaks it down for them. Instead of "OMG I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FLARE", it becomes "Fly the airplane to within a few feet of the ground like we've been doing. Then pull the power back, and try to keep it from landing as long as you can."

Good luck. Teaching landings to people that just don't get it is one of the most challenging aspects of flight instructing IMO.
 
Cessna414JJB said:
Have a engine monitoring system? Or a nice GPS?
Push a couple of buttons during cruise. Chances are you will scare yourself to stay awake long enough to witness the landing... :D

I have made it a habit to frequently locate, push or pull handles knobs and buttons until the blood pressure is up again...;)

If nothing helps, I'll pull the Emergency Manual and start reading it aloud. That helps making the pax feel very squeezy, which usually makes me laugh. Laughing helps a lot with staying alert too.
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Now that's funny.


As for landing tips, the only thing I can say is that each airplane is similar but different. The most important thing I remember from learning to land was that I needed to adjust my seat to the same setting every time before I flew, that way my sight picture was exactly the same, every time. You forget about that and you forget when to flare because you're confused over how something looks "just slightly different." That being said, now that I make about 10-20 landings per day, its a little different. I look near and far, kind of alternating when I think about it, and it works alright. Plus, I trim in the flare a little too. Not much, but just a little. I also find that I can make better landings if I aim for the numbers rather than for the aiming point or something else. They seem to squeak better when I try to touch down as short as possible, not sure why that is yet.
 
Instead of telling them to flare, try telling them to level the airplane about the height of a small tree or a small building close to the runway. Then as the airplane starts to sink, tell them to keep the airplane off the runway in order to protect the nose wheel.
I had this problem with a student; then, during the debrief when I showed him with a model what I meant by "round out", he responded, "That's not a round out. That's a level off." His idea of a round out was to flare right away which caused the airplane to balloon.
 
Are they drastically pumping the yoke back and forth at all or are they pretty much spat landings (what level are they at on the matter)? What model Cessna?
 
Something else you can try is tell them to begin the round out and flare at about the time that the runway fills the windscreen, or fills your field of view. Of course, this will depend on the width of the runway that you are using, and probably won't work on a really skinny runway (like 75' or 60') or a really wide runway (300'). But on the typical 150 footer it will probably be about right.

If they're late to flare, then they'll probably balloon as they try to do all of the flare at the last second, so tell them to try to start the round out a little earlier.

A lot of guys have the opposite problem, though. They get "ground shy" towards the end of the landing, and raise the nose just a little early. So the airspeed bleeds off, and then when they go to flare there isn't enough airspeed left to flare with. With those guys I fly and have them say "flare" when they think they should flare, and I say "flare" when I think we should flare (which is when I start the round out). So they get to hear the difference between the two.

Last idea on landings: We used to have this demo in the KC-135 called a landing attitude demo. You would execute an approach, and in the flare you wouldn't pull all of the power. The aircraft would level off in ground effect. Then you could demonstrate the landing attitude right above the runway, just as some other guys above have posted. You could also pull a little power (not to idle, just a little pull) and the aircraft would touch down, and you could then push in a little more and the aircraft would fly again. You could try something like that in a trainer-sized aircraft, but make sure you have the performance to climb out, because you'll be eating up a ton of runway to do this.
 
Thanks for all the input. I have been teaching the same way I was taught which deals with me giving the whole aiming point and touchdown spiel. With both students everything is good until the flare. I have flown the airplane down the runway to show them where the level off and flare takes place. I have tried today to have the students keep some power in so they have more time to level off and flare but that has resulted in the not flaring enough so they touchdown flat. They both have improved a lot. I thin I might try doing the whole touch down take off and landing repeat thing that fish314 is talking about. Its a C172.
 
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