Taxi clearance change?

adreamer

adreamer

Well-Known Member
just got back from school house. Instructors had informed us that "Taxi clearance" will be changed shortly(end of this month). Is that true? Where can I find the changes? AIM, FAR, or 7110.65?
 
I'm not sure when the exact date is, but the days of being cleared to cross a runway between you and your assigned runway without a clearance are coming to an end.

Used to be that if your taxi route to runway 9 crossed runway 14 and your clearance was "taxi to runway 9 via Bravo" or something like that, you could cross 14 without an additional clearance. Now, you're either going to get a specific clearance to cross the runway or an instruction to hold short in the taxi clearance.

Or at least that's how I understand it.
 
Isn't it basically that the ATC controllers now have to give you more specific hold short instructions, and that they can no longer clear you to cross all runways (Example, "Cessna 123, ABC tower taxi to runway 2 via alpha and delta, hold short runways 28 and 33"


EDit:
I should probably read the thread before I post, the guy a few posts ahead said exactly what I said.
 
EXAMPLE ONLY:

If moving to 9R for takeoff but you would have to cross runway 31, the current clearance would be something like this: "Taxi to Runway 9R via Echo, hold short of 9R". This would clear me all the way to 9R.

The new clearance might be like this:"Taxi to Runway 9R via Echo, cleared to cross 31, hold short of 9R". OR "Taxi to Runway 9R via Echo, hold short of runway 31"

It doesn't really complicate things but it does put you on your toes!!
 
Isn't there something in the works about the "Position and Hold" phrase as well? I know that's just a US thing and not what ICAO has implemented, but I thought I heard that we were going to start using the ICAO equivalent. (Forgot what it is though.)
 
The taxi clearance change is that the FAA is getting rid of "taxi to". For instance, "Runway 29R, taxi via J B".

And I've also heard that we are going to "Line up and wait" (Taxi Into Position and Hold). I'm waiting for the responses from places like JFK
 
GlenA said:
Have there really been that many problems that this needed to change?
Click to expand...
Yup. Runway incursions are a huuuuge deal with the FAA and have been for a long time, yet people still manage to blunder onto runways they're not supposed to be on while driving around airports. Whether this rule will actually accomplish anything, I don't know, but there ya go.
 
Hi!

"Lineup and Wait" already started in Canada a while back. The other change I learned is that everywhere else says "Runway Vacated." NEVER "Clear" of the runway, or anything with "clear" in it...i guess so you don't confuse it with a clearance???

cliff
LFW
 
atpcliff said:
Hi!

"Lineup and Wait" already started in Canada a while back. The other change I learned is that everywhere else says "Runway Vacated." NEVER "Clear" of the runway, or anything with "clear" in it...i guess so you don't confuse it with a clearance???

cliff
LFW
Click to expand...

I like that, I think I might start using that, "Report Vacating the runways"
 
The change is mostly phraseology, in addition to a requirement that we state a specific instruction to cross any (active, inactive, or closed) runway along the taxi routing. Previously this was not necessary. The absence of hold short instructions allowed pilots to cross any runway along their route except the one assigned.

What I don't like about this change is that it removes a big distinction in how we gave taxi instructions with/without hold short instructions

Old phraseology:

No holdshort instructions
"TAXI TO Runway 14 via Alpha, Bravo"

With holdshort instructions
"Runway 14, TAXI VIA Alpha, Bravo, HOLD SHORT OF Runway 19"

New phraseology:

No holdshort instructions

"Runway 14, TAXI VIA Alpha, Bravo, CROSS Runway 19"

With holdshort instructions

"Runway 14, TAXI VIA Alpha, Bravo, HOLD SHORT OF Runway 19"

This bugs me, because the old way provided a very clear distinction between an instruction that would involve holding short somewhere, and one that didn't. In this new method, both phraseology structures are mostly the same, except in one instance you say "cross" and in the other you say "hold short of." In either case, the difference takes place in the middle of the instruction, surrounded by other stuff. I think this could lead to some additional confusion as opposed to preventing it. But we'll see how it goes once implemented.
 
FM_Weasel said:
This bugs me, because the old way provided a very clear distinction between an instruction that would involve holding short somewhere, and one that didn't. In this new method, both phraseology structures are mostly the same, except in one instance you say "cross" and in the other you say "hold short of." In either case, the difference takes place in the middle of the instruction, surrounded by other stuff. I think this could lead to some additional confusion as opposed to preventing it. But we'll see how it goes once implemented.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. Runway incursion are a problem, but I'd argue that the phraseology changes will do little to change that. Honestly, I think they want to change the statistics and bring them down, but at what cost? How much does it cost to implement a phraseology change compared to a change in airport infrastructure? I remember studying a few projects in college, and seeing a few design competitions out there related to adding runway safety, but I bet some genius just walked in and said "the JAA and CAA do it like this, and they have X incursions per year (note the lack of % stats), let's try what they're doing!"

Note that the taxi clearances and position and hold changes are in phraseology only, and not anything more tangeable.

[/:soapbox:]
 
I'd be interested to see what the common threads are in runway incursions. Are they botched radio calls? Inattention by pilots? Lack of airport information (diagrams!)? I doubt the phraseology change will do anything other than reduce the number of "Uh 36LlamaUnicorn are we cleared to cross 18?" calls when people are not sure about a taxi clearance. I'm sure y'all on the other side of the radio can provide some insight here...
 
It'll help at Albert Whitted. Only place in America I've been cleared to taxi to the runway in use without a hold short instruction and then got bitched at for crossing a runway on the way there.
 
Ha, yeah that's fantastic. Nothing better than raging on a pilot after they do something you told them to do. A little humility goes a long way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top