Target Fixation

Damn that was a late throttle chop. Never wait until you are below 100', engines have no time to spool to TOGA by touchdown. Also, runways next to trees are great, because I know that when I get below the treetops, throttles go straight to idle. Don't even need to scan N1 or fuel flow
 
///AMG said:
Damn that was a late throttle chop. Never wait until you are below 100', engines have no time to spool to TOGA by touchdown. Also, runways next to trees are great, because I know that when I get below the treetops, throttles go straight to idle. Don't even need to scan N1 or fuel flow
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In the 145 you kept them somewhat spooled up with only a small power reduction coming across the threshold. In the small business jets I'm now, power goes to idle at 50 ft. @derg would have to tell us how that's supposed to look in the Airbus.
 
///AMG said:
Damn that was a late throttle chop. Never wait until you are below 100', engines have no time to spool to TOGA by touchdown. Also, runways next to trees are great, because I know that when I get below the treetops, throttles go straight to idle. Don't even need to scan N1 or fuel flow
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In the bus it stays in that auto thrust detent until around 20-30 feet so that’s normal. Pretty sure you’re supposed to flare though;)
 
///AMG said:
I actually have no idea what I do with the throttles. I think they come to idle sometime at or around landing time :)
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Strangely, I totally agree with that statement. I work the throttles in precisely the same fashion. :D

I use IAS as the dependent variable at landing time. Every other input is an independent variable.
 
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Didn’t compensate for that 2 degree down input and was hitting flat? (Asking genuinely since Im supposed to be learning this shizz). Other than that it was hard for me to notice anything other than the RA call being too fast…CPT smacked that hand so fast makes me feel like I fd up and need to figure out how to fix it…
 
Boots2Wings said:
Didn’t compensate for that 2 degree down input and was hitting flat? (Asking genuinely since Im supposed to be learning this shizz). Other than that it was hard for me to notice anything other than the RA call being too fast…CPT smacked that hand so fast makes me feel like I fd up and need to figure out how to fix it…
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Yeah, it looks to me like he just never really finished the "flare", or really what could be called reducing the descent rate. The sun glare washes out the last couple seconds, but right before is the sight picture of a pretty firm landing, at least it would be in the 737. Ask me how I know :) That being said, that tiny fragment of time where we can't really see out the windscreen is also where a really nice approach/initial landing can still result in a firm touchdown. In this case, there wasn't any saving it by then (chopping the throttles wouldn't help either), but I have had landings where I just got a little too lazy in that last 1-2 seconds and went from a possible greaser to a mildly firm touch.
 
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///AMG said:
Yeah, it looks to me like he just never really finished the "flare", or really what could be called reducing the descent rate. The sun glare washes out the last couple seconds, but right before is the sight picture of a pretty firm landing, at least it would be in the 737. Ask me how I know :) That being said, that tiny fragment of time where we can't really see out the windscreen is also where a really nice approach/initial landing can still result in a firm touchdown. In this case, there wasn't any saving it by then, but I have had landings where I just got a little too lazy in that last 1-2 seconds and went from a greaser to a mildly firm touch.
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Appreciate the correlation. I keep feeling like Im missing the “ah-ha!” Moment in the video, but i keep thinking without the sight picture, it looks flat but nothing worse than one of those late night landings when im tired and the ground comes up a microsecond faster than expected…
Great LCA i had said “Not everyone can be a greaser..,but you have to make a few before people think you cant”.
 
Wardogg said:
In the 145 you kept them somewhat spooled up with only a small power reduction coming across the threshold. In the small business jets I'm now, power goes to idle at 50 ft. @derg would have to tell us how that's supposed to look in the Airbus.
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Yeah, chop the power on a 145 at the fence and you’ll end up cratering on the numbers. The bus you can get away with that …
 
///AMG said:
Yeah, it looks to me like he just never really finished the "flare", or really what could be called reducing the descent rate. The sun glare washes out the last couple seconds, but right before is the sight picture of a pretty firm landing, at least it would be in the 737. Ask me how I know :) That being said, that tiny fragment of time where we can't really see out the windscreen is also where a really nice approach/initial landing can still result in a firm touchdown. In this case, there wasn't any saving it by then (chopping the throttles wouldn't help either), but I have had landings where I just got a little too lazy in that last 1-2 seconds and went from a possible greaser to a mildly firm touch.
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I have no idea how it is in 737, but I suspect pretty much like every other airplane. In every airplane I've ever flown, if you're not continuously adding back pressure to the stick/yoke throughout the flare, you will not have a greaser. Slower speed equals less airflow. Less airflow equals less work done by an airfoil or control surface for any given angular deflection. As you slow, you've got to add stick angle just to maintain a given deck angle.
 
Wardogg said:
In the 145 you kept them somewhat spooled up with only a small power reduction coming across the threshold. In the small business jets I'm now, power goes to idle at 50 ft. @derg would have to tell us how that's supposed to look in the Airbus.
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You can bring them to idle about 20' AGL but they're generally already at idle. Watching the video the problem wasn't the power reduction, it was an insufficient flare.

When it says "retard, retard…" the power has been idle for a bit and it's just asking for you to bring the thrust levers to IDLE to match what it's already doing.

Besides, if it's that bad: "My aircraft!" takeover pushbutton, take it around. The risk was that what if that rapid snap back to the CLB detent became TOGA and now the jets confused, accelerating and commanding a climb? You have a quick moment to figure that out and it can go pear-shaped pretty easily.

I can tell stories about former 737 pilots getting stressed out, reverting ot their old ways and clicking the autothrust disconnect buttons before they flare with the thrust levers in the CLB detent. Yeeeeehaw, take it 'round the patch again, Cooter!
 
Baronman said:
Yeah, chop the power …. at the fence … bus you can get away with that …
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derg said:
You can bring them to idle about 20' AGL but they're generally already at idle. Watching the video the problem wasn't the power reduction, it was an insufficient flare.

When it says "retard, retard…" the power has been idle for a bit and it's just asking for you to bring the thrust levers to IDLE to match what it's already doing.

Besides, if it's that bad: "My aircraft!" takeover pushbutton, take it around. The risk was that what if that rapid snap back to the CLB detent became TOGA and now the jets confused, accelerating and commanding a climb? You have a quick moment to figure that out and it can go pear-shaped pretty easily.

I can tell stories about former 737 pilots getting stressed out, reverting ot their old ways and clicking the autothrust disconnect buttons before they flare with the thrust levers in the CLB detent. Yeeeeehaw, take it 'round the patch again, Cooter!
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Thanks, just got “done” with ground and have yet to touch the sims (next week) so been scratching my head what I was missing here.
 
He's at 30 feet when he takes it out of the idle and judging by the rate of the callouts it's a little too much ROD already. The landing would have been just about the same without Captain Slappy jumping on the thrust levers. He would have been better off guarding the stick and helping with the round out.
 
Boots2Wings said:
Thanks, just got “done” with ground and have yet to touch the sims (next week) so been scratching my head what I was missing here.
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Think "50 30 20"...

at the 50' callout: decrab and align the longitudinal axis with the centerline
at the 30' callout: start a smooth flare, a few degrees and hold it. Remember the flight control computers are going to give you a slight pitch down moment in order to provide a more traditional feel to flare
at the 20' callout: retard the thrust levers, if you'd like, NOT required at all.
 
derg said:
the flight control computers are going to give you a slight pitch down moment
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So apparently the Pratt & Whitney 321neos don’t do this. Not sure about the P&W 320s or the LEAP 321neos. The LEAP 320s still have this mode.

Any spirit pilots around these parts?
 
roundout said:
So apparently the Pratt & Whitney 321neos don’t do this. Not sure about the P&W 320s or the LEAP 321neos. The LEAP 320s still have this mode.

Any spirit pilots around these parts?
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Pretty sure it still has that mode. It starts higher though.
 
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