Tandem transition advice request

wanabe

wanabe

Well-Known Member
I started checking out flying from the back seat of a Citabria. I am struggling a little bit because my forward view is nil. I am trying to utilize my peripheral vision more but just dont feel comfortable landing in stron crosswinds.

I would appreciate any advice.
 
I dunno, its a hard transition. I only few about 20 hours in a tandem (RV-8) and I ahh never got fully used to landing from the rear. Me sitting on a pillow helped.
 
What works for me is to basically stare at the back of the neck of whomever is sitting in front. That allows me to have equal sight on the side with peripheral vision. Granted, a lot has to do with how it feels when I can't see forward. Especially whether we are turning one way or the other.

If you haven't already, figure out where the horizon crosses through the windows at various airspeeds. Once I had that, landings become so much easier.

It is a challenge to land from the rear seat. Just try to use all available references. In due time you will become accustomed to sitting in back. In fact, I much rather prefer the back to the front now.
 
In the words of that world famous pilot Ty Webb, "There is a force in the universe that makes things happen...and all you have to do is get in touch with it. Stop thinking...let things happen...and Be the airplane."
You will get to the point sitting in the back that you can feel and sense what is going on. Don't try to look around the pilot in front, just look through them and see what is happening with your peripheral vision.
 
Blackhawk said:
In the words of that world famous pilot Ty Webb, "There is a force in the universe that makes things happen...and all you have to do is get in touch with it. Stop thinking...let things happen...and Be the airplane."
You will get to the point sitting in the back that you can feel and sense what is going on. Don't try to look around the pilot in front, just look through them and see what is happening with your peripheral vision.
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I only have a couple hours backseat, but in my experience what black is saying makes perfect sense. It is back to seat of your pants flying you can feel everything back there as far as aircraft coordination goes. If you feel your ass shifting from side to side you might want to check your coordination, combine that with peripheral vision and you should be all set. The rest will be practice and time.

My next flight is actually back seat time, I will let you know if I discover anything that works particularly well for me. But so far I have just been flying that bad boy by the seat of my pants and I havn't dented anything yet!
 
shdw said:
I only have a couple hours backseat, but in my experience what black is saying makes perfect sense. It is back to seat of your pants flying you can feel everything back there as far as aircraft coordination goes. If you feel your ass shifting from side to side you might want to check your coordination, combine that with peripheral vision and you should be all set. The rest will be practice and time.

My next flight is actually back seat time, I will let you know if I discover anything that works particularly well for me. But so far I have just been flying that bad boy by the seat of my pants and I havn't dented anything yet!
Click to expand...
One other thing that may help you with yaw until you can feel it is to tape a yaw string to the windshield. While not always accurate in SE airplanes, these are very accurate in the 7/8 series airplanes and if you make it long enough you can see it from the back. I have one on my airplane to help pilots in the front with yaw without looking inside, but I can see it from the back.
 
Thanks for the great tips. What a great resource JC is! Thinking back I was trying to see around the front seater so I will try looking through them instead.

My landings in a 15kt xwind were fine I just didnt like the transition from positioning into the flare until the 3 point touchdown because I couldnt see squat. My biggest concern is not being able to track the centerline because I can't see it. Wheel landings were much more comfortable.

Hopefully I will feel more comfortable as time goes on.
 
I prefer to wheel land the Citabria in a crosswind when I'm in the front or back. I'm at the point now that I think I can wheel land it better from the back seat than the front. Keep working at it and you'll get it.
 
Blackhawk said:
In the words of that world famous pilot Ty Webb, "There is a force in the universe that makes things happen...and all you have to do is get in touch with it. Stop thinking...let things happen...and Be the airplane."
You will get to the point sitting in the back that you can feel and sense what is going on. Don't try to look around the pilot in front, just look through them and see what is happening with your peripheral vision.
Click to expand...

That is some good advice.

With the Citabria, don't look out front. Look out the sides. Although I am tall, I am short in the torso, thus almost anybody I put up front blocks the majority of my forward view. Additionally, I have learned what I can and can't see and use from the backseat. I can see about 60% of my altimeter and the radio stack, but that is about it. Everything else is by feel and sound.
 
Just look at the back of the person's head in front of you. Use your peripheral vision. You will find that it is actually easier to land it from the back seat for three point, wheel, crosswind, whatever..... You actually feel the airplane alot more due to you being further aft. You feel the yaw alot more, to the point that it drives your students nuts, because your ass becomes a rudder. btw, get checked out by another instructor whom is experienced in tailwheel in a tandem aircraft.

With us, you have to fly about 5 hours with the chiefs (with you in the back), before you can teach in it. We use supercubs. Then you will love it, and actually worry about screwing up the landings from the front. Just a different picture....
 
escapepilot said:
I prefer to wheel land the Citabria in a crosswind when I'm in the front or back. I'm at the point now that I think I can wheel land it better from the back seat than the front. Keep working at it and you'll get it.
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interesting. I prefer 3 point landing in a crosswind. Reason: because there is a point in a wheel landing when the tailwheel is still off the ground AND there is no longer enough air flow over the rudder to use it for directional control. At this point, all you have is differential braking for directional control.. not ideal in a gusty crosswind.

I like having the tailwheel steering ASAP. Just my experience...

sorry for the off topic post
 
Oh boy. Here we go. Wheel verses three point. Coke verses Pepsi. High wing verses low wing. Robinson verses Schweizer. Coffee verses tea. Did I forget any?
 
shdw said:
Dependends on how many bottles you had before that 8 hour rule ;)
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I had this cartoon on my bulletin board at work years ago...

cart161.gif
 
Blackhawk said:
Oh boy. Here we go. Wheel verses three point. Coke verses Pepsi. High wing verses low wing. Robinson verses Schweizer. Coffee verses tea. Did I forget any?
Click to expand...
Ford vs. Chev . . . never mind

And about landing from the back seat. Just point the nose down toward the runway. When the person in front starts screaming, it's time to flare.
 
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