Take your pick Colgan!

Seggy said:
First NJA are in a decertification drive for the teamsters. A lot of NetJet Pilots are not happy with the teamsters and there is a good possibility that they are going to have their own union.
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Minor correction.

NetJets is in the process of decertifying the Teamsters to preserve dues money for use by the Local. They do not feel we are getting our bang for the buck, for the amount of dues we are sending to DC. We are in the process of having the only decert in history to not involved the NMB. IBT officials have been involved in the process and it is/will be, an amicable split.
 
Mike, I hate to say it, but just because the ill informed Capitains say Teamsters, doesn't make it right. Remember these are the guys that were here before and failed to vote in ANY union. The same people who believed that Colgan wouldn't change and was still a good old Family run company. No offense, but I'm with Seggy on the union thing. I was listening the other day to a few Captains complaining about giving %3 of their check to ALPA, I'm thinking " Who TF cares?" %3 of nothing is nothing as far as I'm concerned with my paycheck. It's sad to think but I actually believe some people are using the .5% or 1.5% difference as a soapbox for not going ALPA. If all these nickel pinchers could live at one time on 1st year FO pay at Colgan, I'm pretty sure they can spring for what I consider Job Insurance.

I think this whole deal is gonna be what we make of it, but I haven't ever spoken to an ALPA or Teamster who has not said, "Go ALPA" Right now this whole union thing at Colgan is like where the Republicans are in the presidential race. No one is really excited about McCain, but if he's what everyone else is pushing, guess I'll vote for him.

O, and Mil leave is keeping me sane. This month is good though so I'm actually working for Colgan.

Rant End
 
Where would you rather get your furniture from? Would you rather get it from a low-price, superstore or would you rather get it from a store that specializes in furniture?
 
Ok so forget all of this back and forth BS! Can somebody tell me when ALPA reps will be at EWR to give out the facts. :bandit:
 
mjb00123 said:
Ok so forget all of this back and forth BS! Can somebody tell me when ALPA reps will be at EWR to give out the facts. :bandit:
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Seggy a lot of guys think that ALPA can't even organize before the 1 year anniversary of Aug 31st, and then it would be another few months before the vote. Some think that we are eligible to vote on Aug 31st and they can organize before. Do you know what the deal is?
 
Here is the deal.

From what I understand some people have been talking to ALPA for a few months.

Unlike the teamsters who are not organized, ALPA has a process that takes a few months to initiate such as getting mailing lists, addresses, lining up support from other ALPA carriers, etc.

If ALPA feels that there is enough support for another drive then a card collecting campaign will start. By signing the card, it authorizes the National Mediation Board to conduct a vote. The NMB needs at least a 35% of the total number of pilots on the seniority to sign a card for a vote. The NMB certifies it as a LEGAL bargaining union for the pilots.

Just a warning. If there are two unions holding a drive. The company can actually go to the NMB and say the recognize the Teamsters or ALPA. If this happens it is IMPERATIVE that we still sign the cards for a vote. If this happens the company will go for what they feel the weaker union is (like they did with the flight attendants) and the company can go back and kick the union off property at will at any time.
 
ANG135drvr said:
I was listening the other day to a few Captains complaining about giving %3 of their check to ALPA, I'm thinking " Who TF cares?" %3 of nothing is nothing as far as I'm concerned with my paycheck. It's sad to think but I actually believe some people are using the .5% or 1.5% difference as a soapbox for not going ALPA. If all these nickel pinchers could live at one time on 1st year FO pay at Colgan, I'm pretty sure they can spring for what I consider Job Insurance.
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You can correct them it is 1.96% of your salary goes to the union. All tax deductable as well, so it is really free in the long run with our wages.
 
mjb00123 said:
Because right now Teamsters have alot of the Captains minds made up.
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See below...


ANG135drvr said:
Mike, I hate to say it, but just because the ill informed Capitains say Teamsters, doesn't make it right. Remember these are the guys that were here before and failed to vote in ANY union. The same people who believed that Colgan wouldn't change and was still a good old Family run company.
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:yeahthat:

Mike and all other Colgan guys out there...the only thing I ask is that you have an open mind about ALPA vs. teamsters.

Just because somebody says something, no matter if they are a senior captain or junior first officers, does not mean they are right or wrong. Take a look at the facts that are presented, how they present themselves, THEN decide what is the best choice for us as a pilot group.


It is imperative that we all have an open mind about the choice we are going to make. Get the facts and make your own individual choice about the direction you want to take our pilot group.
 
One thing I thought about on this one.....Pinnacle Holdings might actually LIKE to see Teamsters at Colgan. Gives them one more tool to pit pilot groups against each other. Think about that one.

Also, who cares how many locals IBT has. I highly doubt the characters at Disney are gonna show up to a picketting event for Republic. Yeah, the Disney characters are Teamsters. I don't see Teamster supported airlines fairing immensely better than the ALPA ones, so I don't see how this really matters.
 
Seggy said:
First NJA are in a decertification drive for the teamsters. A lot of NetJet Pilots are not happy with the teamsters and there is a good possibility that they are going to have their own union.
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Glad you said it. . .I would have been thrown to the wolves for mentioning this.

NJA_Capt said:
What a total load of propaganda!!!!
I'm not siding with either horse in this race, but lets expand on these "facts" a little, shall we.

ALPA has 40 Locals, the IBT has 500
ALPA has 55,000 members, the IBT has 1.4 MILLION !

To give an accurate comparison, you would have to provide "pilot" allegations for the IBT and ALPA. You cannot include the dockworkers, truck drivers and factory workers allegations.

If ALPA showed up for a card drive at NJA they would be chased out of town with pitchforks.
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Call it whatever you want, but those are actual numbers. Not made up numbers out of my brain. Ignore them, call them bad names. . .whatever, I really don't care.

And yes, I agree ALPA would be laughed away from NetJets.

ALPA has no place in trying to represent 135, 91, or any other combination of those two, or even 121 Charter / Fractional Operators. While I don't have any specific experience in a Charter or Fractional shop, you guys run an extremely different set up than the 121 Passenger / Freight companies. Many differences, but one of the most stand out is the simple fact that you guys don't have to worry about scope issues with holding companies seeking to whipsaw another pilot group against you and undermining your CBA. Or hell, maybe you do. :) (The previous paragraph is my personal opinion)

I wish you NJA guys/gals the best of luck in getting rid of the most corrupt union in our country's short history and bringing in an extremely strong in-house organization. You know where to seek help, and I don't think for a second that none of us trade unionists on this web site would ever tell you guys "No" if you needed any additional show of support.
 
Atlas is a huge 121 charter operation. The lack of scope has created MAJOR issues, such as a non-union outfit started by the company, with individuals given super seniority to fly their airplanes. Also, the parent company is the majority owner of Polar and a minority owner of GSS.

World Airways is a major 121 Charter operation. Scope is a big issue, especially with the parent company owning 2 airlines.

NJA owns several subsidiaries, such as NJI, and the BBJ operation, as well as operations in Europe, the mid-east and god knows where else.
 
surreal1221 said:
...one of the most stand out is the simple fact that you guys don't have to worry about scope issues with holding companies seeking to whipsaw another pilot group against you and undermining your CBA.
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NetJets Aviation most definitely has to worry about scope and whip sawing. Most significantly is the current single carrier actions we are seeking against our sister company NJI. We are also concerned about NetJets Europe expanding their international flying. Not to mention our other NetJets, Inc affiliated companies.

I don't think 91/135/121 has anything to do with it. Keep in mind that not too many years ago the regionals were all operating under FAR135 themselves. Look at some of the small operators ALPA is currently supporting. If NJA (alone) was an ALPA carrier it would be the 5th largest pilot group, behind DAL, COA, FedEx and UAL.
 
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