Tailwheel endorsement

germb747 said:
By all means, log your time as permitted by FARs, but know you're only satisfying FAA requirements for applying for advanced certificates, etc (not the requirements of any potential employer).
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There are lots of non-part 121 employers out there who are perfectly fine with the 61.51 definition of PIC. Chances are, you're going to work for one of them before you ever get near a 121 employer. Therefore by the time you get to where a 121 employer will look at you, 20 hours less of PIC time isn't going to make any difference. However when it comes to getting your first job you generally need all the PIC time you can get and an extra 20 or 30 hours can often be the difference between getting your first job or not. If I was starting over, I'd log every hour I could legally log just like I did the first time 'round.
 
Nihon_Ni said:
Ahhhh, pardon me sir, but before you get out your "For a bunch of guys..." gun, you should read each word:

61.31:
(i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the following maneuvers and procedures:
(i) Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings;
(ii) Wheel landings (unless the manufacturer has recommended against such landings); and
(iii) Go-around procedures.
(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (i)(1) of this section is not required if the person logged pilot-in-command time in a tailwheel airplane before April 15, 1991.
(j) Additional training required for operating a glider.
...
Glider time does not fit this endorsement because tailwheel applies to airplanes. If you are logging glider time as tailwheel time you are mixing apples and oranges.

(Now who had the answer in his post and didn't know it.:D)
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Okay, I have no idea where you were going with that. Honestly. (i) and (j) are two completely different sections. They have nothing to do with each other. I said I didn't need a tailwheel endorsement to be PIC of a tailwheel glider. I believe you agree. There is absolutely no requirement for a glider tailwheel endorsement. (j) refers to endorsements for the different types of launches. I myself hold a self-launch endorsement.

As far as logging my time as tailwheel time... why wouldn't I? It's a tailwheel...
 
sopdan said:
Okay, I have no idea where you were going with that. Honestly. (i) and (j) are two completely different sections. They have nothing to do with each other. I said I didn't need a tailwheel endorsement to be PIC of a tailwheel glider. I believe you agree. There is absolutely no requirement for a glider tailwheel endorsement. (j) refers to endorsements for the different types of launches. I myself hold a self-launch endorsement.

As far as logging my time as tailwheel time... why wouldn't I? It's a tailwheel...
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Yes, you don't need the endorsement, because "tailwheel" only applies to airplanes. (The regs have no mention of tailwheel glider, nosewheel glider, or any other configuration -- it's all glider.) You can log glider time however you wish--it's your logbook, log what makes you happy. I fly gliders with 5 wheels, so I guess I could log it any of 5 ways if I wanted to.

My only point is that if you are comparing glider time to tailwheel airplanes it's apples and oranges.
 
Flying a tailwheel glider takes the same skills as flying a tailwheel airplane... its not a matter of apples and oranges. Being able to act as PIC is a different matter.
 
I'll settle this!!! Just log the time between the takeoff and Landing. :nana2:
Your flying ASEL!! Don't log the landing.:D

:sarcasm:!!!

This is a matter for some administrative law judge. Nobody will ever win or lose it on this forum..

Now on to the next great discussion Who's going to win the super bowl Giants or Pats ?????
Bill
 
sopdan said:
Flying a tailwheel glider takes the same skills as flying a tailwheel airplane... its not a matter of apples and oranges. Being able to act as PIC is a different matter.
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This is an assumption you are making, since -- as you have said -- you don't hold a tailwheel endorsement. Flying a glider and calling it tailwheel time is like flying an airplane with the trottle at a zero thrust setting and calling it glider time. They are both close, but no cigar. If I told my insurance company I had 300 hrs of tailwheel but it was all in gliders, they would tell me to come back when I had some tailwheel time. It's apples & oranges.
 
sopdan said:
Flying a tailwheel glider takes the same skills as flying a tailwheel airplane... its not a matter of apples and oranges. Being able to act as PIC is a different matter.
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The torque and p-factor in a tail wheel glider can be a handful I bet! ;)

I have to disagree - is there anything thing in the air while actually flying that makes a TW airplane different from a tricycle? No. It's takeoffs, landings and taxiing. If a non-powered glider can't taxi or take off on its own, that leaves landing. If you want to compare a TW glider landing to a TW airplane landing - fine - but there's a lot more to TW airplanes than that.

(Just as there's more to flying gliders in general - doing a power off 180 in a plane probably does not give one "glider skills.")

Nihon_Ni said:
This is an assumption you are making, since -- as you have said -- you don't hold a tailwheel endorsement. Flying a glider and calling it tailwheel time is like flying an airplane with the throttle at a zero thrust setting and calling it glider time. They are both close, but no cigar. If I told my insurance company I had 300 hrs of tailwheel but it was all in gliders, they would tell me to come back when I had some tailwheel time. It's apples & oranges.
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So what you're say is, my buddies who fly Blackhawk helicopters can't log tailwheel time either? ;)

See what he's saying sopdan? In my example a Blackhawk pilot is flying a multi-engine helicopter in a tailwheel configuration, but the regs don't make a distinction for multi engine or tail wheel for helos.

Same as with you in tailwheel gliders.
 
Maybe I should have been more specific... it was a motorglider that I flew, so yes, torque and p-factor were part of the equation.

And crosswinds w/ a 57' wingspan could be tricky as well.
 
Ian J said:
I have to disagree - is there anything thing in the air while actually flying that makes a TW airplane different from a tricycle? No. It's takeoffs, landings and taxiing.
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Well no, some tailwheel airplanes can be a bit different in the air from the their nosewheel cousins and will bite you if you try to stall them with your feet on the floor like some 172 drivers like to do. ;) But I see your point and for the most part I agree with it.
 
jynxyjoe said:
anyway, forgetting the regs a minute. Tailwheel is a great learning experience. I'd suggest it to anyone. Don't do it on a Husky though, give yourself a challenge, find an old Clipper or something squirrelly on the ground.
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The Clipper is the most fun airplane I've ever flown. I did 5 hours in a Piper Super Cruiser then got my endorsement in a Clipper and did my commercial time building in it. It was such a blast. I rent it from the owner for $10 hour dry. Also, logging PIC was the only way I could log the Super Cruiser time, the pilot instructing me wasn't a CFI.
 
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