Tail wheel training

rframe said:
I think that has to do with production a lot more than which end the third wheel is on.
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To some extent, but in real world application the nose dragger comes out on top. There is no 180 that can stop as short as a 182.
 
Not to weigh in on either side, but isn't the larger benefit to taildraggers the lack of that ever-so-fragile nose gear? I mean... plopping down on some seriously nasty tundra is a cakewalk for a dragger with balloon tires... and leaving isn't much harder. I don't think it matter much how big of a tire you can fit on that nose, it's still going to be susceptible to diving into ruts and either breaking or giving you that oh-so-lovely endo.
 
SteveCostello said:
Not to weigh in on either side, but isn't the larger benefit to taildraggers the lack of that ever-so-fragile nose gear?
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Generally speaking, yes that's one advantage. The other is because of the nose high attitude you should have great prop clearance. However, quite a lot of "bush" flying really is just flying out of remote grass/gravel airports, and a lot of nose draggers can handle that fine. What's more important for a lot of operators is the utility of lots of space and doors to haul crap and a big engine to pull a lot of weight into the air (hence the popularity of the 206). Heck I've seen Bonanza's flying into some of Idaho's backcountry airports, and most people dont really think of them as much of a bush plane.

Some aircraft, like the 206, have pretty rugged nose gear too and are less suceptible to failure on rough ground. But in extreme situations, when it comes to really rough off-airport terrain, a taildragger with balloon tires is the right tool for the job. When outfitting with skis for variable snow pack, the taildragger also shines.
 
I was on some pretty muddy river bars that no 182 would get out of last summer, and that was in a measly 65hp Taylorcraft :) I think there is a big difference between a "bush plane" and a clapped out air taxi sled. Not arguing that they aren't great planes, but as soon as you start landing on real tundra the nose wheel airplane will be taking a heli ride outta there.
 
z987k said:
Eh, give me a 182 and big tires and I'll do things tailwheel airplanes could only dream of.
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Yeah..... Go spend some time in the Idaho backcountry. In a modded 182 you'll still only have access to maybe 1/2 of the fields. No matter where the third wheel is attached, there's only so much you can do with a heavily loaded airplane in the backcountry.

There's a reason why the airport directory says "Super Cub or similar only" for the field information.

There is no 180 that can stop as short as a 182.
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Depends on who's flying it :D. I've seen Skywagons do some pretty incredible stuff.


rframe said:
Heck I've seen Bonanza's flying into some of Idaho's backcountry airports, and most people dont really think of them as much of a bush plane.
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Last summer I went in and out of Bruce Meadows in a D35 Bonanza. We left McCall in the early morning, 1.5 hours of fuel and 2 people, and departed before noon. No big deal, you just have to be patient and can't expect miracles out of the airplane. Early Bonanza and Travelair gear is pretty tough. They share part numbers with the T-34. I've seen Mooneys in much rougher and tighter fields.
 
*UPDATE*

...I finally received my PIC Tailwheel endorsement.
I saved up ~1500 dollar (@150/hr dual) to get it because I thought it was going to take me 10-15 hours.
Surprisingly, it is not that bad. Just under three hours, I received my signoff.
I'm excited because the place I received my training they will let me solo.
 
daydreamer said:
*UPDATE*

...I finally received my PIC Tailwheel endorsement.
I saved up ~1500 dollar (@150/hr dual) to get it because I thought it was going to take me 10-15 hours.
Surprisingly, it is not that bad. Just under three hours, I received my signoff.
I'm excited because the place I received my training they will let me solo.
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I have never signed off a tailwheel in three hours. The only three hour signed off student I ever seen, groundlooped a Husky in Cody on his 4th hour. Be careful!
 
I met Loni a few times almost ten years ago, very good guy.

As far as your 182, are you perhaps talking about a Katmai?
 
Fly_Unity said:
I have never signed off a tailwheel in three hours. The only three hour signed off student I ever seen, groundlooped a Husky in Cody on his 4th hour. Be careful!
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Mine was about 2.5 hours, 21 landings. Ended up doing 4 more landings, as the insurance company wanted 25 (they only cared about landings, not time). I've done 400 groundloop-free landings in taildraggers since. Depends on a lot of things, but I think someone coming from gliders can do it pretty quickly. If you are flying an Airbus, probably not.
 
Mine was 1 hour with a 12,000 hour tailwheel/bush pilot instructor. Basically I think it depends on how you fly going into it. If you are coordinated and fly airplanes straight, there is nothing all that special about taildraggers. Just make them go straight. I think the era of poor airmanship has yielded this mystical view of the taildragger. It's just an airplane, fly it, land it straight... if you dont, it will let you know.
 
It all depends on the student. Very, very few got an endorsement in under 5 hrs. Those that did, were mostly military pilots.
 
Fly_Unity said:
I have never signed off a tailwheel in three hours. The only three hour signed off student I ever seen, groundlooped a Husky in Cody on his 4th hour. Be careful!
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He learned on a grass strip, which is a lot more forgiving. The transition to pavement may be a rude awakening, especially in something more difficult than a Cub, such as a Citabria.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Mine was about 2.5 hours, 21 landings. Ended up doing 4 more landings, as the insurance company wanted 25 (they only cared about landings, not time). I've done 400 groundloop-free landings in taildraggers since. Depends on a lot of things, but I think someone coming from gliders can do it pretty quickly. If you are flying an Airbus, probably not.
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Im not saying its impossible, or even dangerous. Just that I never done it. Of course during training, I usually go to a few mountain strips, and students are proficient at max demonstrated crosswind wheel landings, and other maneuvers such as spins, fluttering leaf etc. I guess I could see where if you did just landings and had a good student it could be done in 3 hours.
 
I own a Champ. Here's some of the instruction that I give that has nothing to do with where the little wheel is located:

-Equipment requirements... I don't have an ADI, lights or a transponder. Where and when can I fly? Are there any grandfather clauses to the FARs?
-Preflight of a fabric aircraft
-Importance of being FOD-free in an aircraft where the control cables are exposed under and around us
-Characteristics & maintenance of a wood prop.
-How to safely hand-prop
-Heel brakes vs toe brakes
-Causes of adverse yaw ...no differential aileron in this plane.
-No fuel in the wings in the Champ, so rolling inertia is much less.
-Carb Icing... This tiny little rubber-band of a motor combined with the relative distance from the carb to the core make these old trainers highly susceptible to carb-icing.
-Stalls ... This airplane doesn't stall like a tri-trainer
-Spins... The different weight distribution causes spins to be higher rate and more nose-down than the tri-trainers.
-Forward slips... This airplane has so much more rudder power than a tri-trainer.

The average pilot comes to me between 100 and 200 hours, and they've usually never flown anything other than a 172 or a Warrior. I feel like I can give my students more than just a conventional sign-off: I can give them insight into how airplanes work vice how a 172 works.
 
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