Tail-slides in a Pitts

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Clipper5895h

New Member
I've heard from some pilots that you can do a tail slide in a Pitts S2B and it will be just fine while others say it will fall apart. These might be the same people that say a Pitts S2B will fall apart past its +6/-3 G limit. What do you think?
 
Clipper5895h said:
These might be the same people that say a Pitts S2B will fall apart past its +6/-3 G limit. What do you think?
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Tailsides are hard on the motor mounts and tail feathers. If you're going to consistently fly the airplane past +6/-3 keep a closer eye on it because it will wear out faster.

I really don't see why you'd need to fly a Pitts beyond that anyway. It won't make it fly any better. The only type of flying I can see where you would need to hit those numbers would be if you competed in advanced or flew airshows.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
Tailsides are hard on the motormounts and tail feathers. If you're going to consistently fly the airplane past +6/-3 keep a closer eye on it because it will wear out faster.

I really don't see why you'd need to fly a Pitts beyond that anyway. It won't make it fly any better. The only type of flying I can see where you would need to hit those numbers would be if you competed in advanced or flew airshows.
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I agree entirely with what you said. I have never gone past the G loading either, nor do I ever plan too. (-3 G's hurts bad enough). The maneuvers you would be doing pulling past that would be way too aggressive for this aircraft. That being said, I do believe the Pitts S2B g rating to be very conservative given its bi-plane "bridge like" design. The Decathlon is said to be good for +6/-5 but i really don't think I would want to find out if it really could do +6/-5 considering its single high wing design.
 
Clipper5895h said:
That being said, I do believe the Pitts S2B g rating to be very conservative given its bi-plane "bridge like" design. The Decathlon is said to be good for +6/-5 but i really don't know if I would want to find that out if it really could do that considering its single high wing design.
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Stearmans aren't designed for high G loading, while Extra 300s are.

Trust the aircraft designers to determine what a plane can or can't do. Don't base expectations on if it has one wing or two, or how the wings are mounted.
 
Clipper5895h said:
I agree entirely with what you said. I have never gone past the G loading either, nor do I ever plan too. (-3 G's hurts bad enough). The maneuvers you would be doing pulling past that would be way too aggressive for this aircraft. That being said, I do believe the Pitts S2B g rating to be very conservative given its bi-plane "bridge like" design. The Decathlon is said to be good for +6/-5 but i really don't think I would want to fin out if it really could do that considering its single high wing design.
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Decathlon is fine at 6g's

I've accidently done 7.5g in the Pitts S2C with no structural bad signs upon a later inspection.
 
Clipper5895h said:
Woozzzer...what did you do to pull that many G's?
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Just an aggessive pull into a vertical upline. Flick of the wrist in that plane. I mismanaged my airspeed out of a split S. It was buffeting around into the pull, looked down and saw 7.5 on the meter. Just really sloppy flying.
 
Clipper5895h said:
The Decathlon is said to be good for +6/-5 but i really don't think I would want to find out if it really could do +6/-5 considering its single high wing design.
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If a Super D is routinely flown at +6/-5 don't expect it to last very long. Mechanical/structural issues aside, the airplane will just start to look thrashed. These are limitations set by the manufacturer. Fatigue is a funny thing. Ask anyone who owns a T34 mentor....
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
If a Super D is routinely flown at +6/-5 don't expect it to last very long. Mechanical/structural issues aside, the airplane will just start to look thrashed. These are limitations set by the manufacturer. Fatigue is a funny thing. Ask anyone who owns a T34 mentor....
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Those T-34 floating around have quite a bit of service on them already. We actually were routinely taking the CJ to 6gs... sure enough after a while the cowl just didn't quite fit right, the engine mounts had slumped down a bit. :)
 
I tail slide the Pitts all the time. You just have to make sure you hold the rudder pedals firm so the rudder doesn't slam into the elevator. the Pitts is certified for tail slides, but I have always been concerned about over G'ing the tail. I have seen the rudder jam into the elevator on the Pitts once but he was able to save it. Our Pitts has holes in it on either side of the rudder because it has been punctured by the elevator.
 
The Pitts is Certified for +6 -5 in aerobatic category. Keep in mind that there are a bunch of people that operate them in experimental pulling more than that. Also the G tolerance is 50% higher than the certification.
 
I am open to correction, I think that 50% margin is single event not cumultive. When looking to buy, I passed on several Super Ds even though the owners said they never exceeded the certified g.
 
Super D's don't handle abuse very well. Ours looked like it went through a couple hurricanes before we sold it. Competitions are really rough on them.
 
From some one who has never done any aerobatics but is looking to learn this summer, I don't much of anything past hammerhead stalls, emmilmans, and the split S. What is a tail slide. That being said I have probably seen it and just don't know whats its called.
 
Tail slide is a pitch to a vertical upline, and usually you pull power to idle unless you want to torque roll at the top, the plane will stop, then you start falling backwards, or flying backwards as it looks.
 
ryan1234 said:
Just an aggessive pull into a vertical upline. Flick of the wrist in that plane. I mismanaged my airspeed out of a split S. It was buffeting around into the pull, looked down and saw 7.5 on the meter. Just really sloppy flying.
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Typical for you eh? ;-)
 
A friend told me of a decathlon he worked on that the owner claimed he would tail slide regularly.

The wing ribs were all broken at the trailing edge, among other scariness. Basically the wings were junk. Please observe G limits all the time as it's the damage you don't see that will kill you.

I understand that sometimes you botch a maneuver, that happens, but if you stay within certificated limits normally your airplane will have the "emergency" strength it needs when you need it

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trafficinsight said:
The wing ribs were all broken at the trailing edge, among other scariness. Basically the wings were junk. Please observe G limits all the time as it's the damage you don't see that will kill you.
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Even if you do observe G limits, sometimes the design creates an environment where damage will occur. My Citabria had some issues we found during a rebuild several years ago. Loose nails, loose rivets, a cracked rib, several non structural components cracked, etc... After some reseach, we found out that almost all of the issues were considered normal wear and tear for that airframe.
 
ctab5060X said:
Even if you do observe G limits, sometimes the design creates an environment where damage will occur. My Citabria had some issues we found during a rebuild several years ago. Loose nails, loose rivets, a cracked rib, several non structural components cracked, etc... After some reseach, we found out that almost all of the issues were considered normal wear and tear for that airframe.
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Regular highly critical maintenance is a must for any Aerobatic airplane, for sure!

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