Tail dragger endorsement hurts airline job prospect?

beasly

beasly

Well-Known Member
Hi all.

An aviator who I respect (ex-boss) responded to my remark that I wanted to pursue a taildragger endorsement with "it will hurt your chances in the airlines because its not a question of IF you do a ground loop, but WHEN you do a ground loop."

Now, I totally respect my ex-chief as he is a true professional--a pleasure to work for--but to this day that line of reasoning sounds wrong to me.

Plus there are some strong reasons I want to pursue it.

1. Tail dragger pilots must--by the offset CG--be better aviators.
2. They fly the coolest aircraft.


Your thoughts?

thanks.

b.

imgres
 
No. It won't. Maybe ground looping would. But I doubt it. I know literally dozens of people with tailwheel endorsements who had no problem getting airline jobs.
 
It's not a question of if you'll die in an airplane, it's a question of when. Sound reasonable? Makes about as much sense as the tailwheel statement above as far as I'm concerned.
 
it's not a question of if you'll have an accident, but when.

Stupid reasoning if you ask me. There's no substitute for vigilence, but no reason you shouldn't persue additional ratings
 
I am a huge proponent of never flying taildraggers. It will ruin you. They are best left to dastardly villian types with no regard for their own, or anyone elses, safety. Groundloops can happen spontaneously, with no input from the pilot, and are usually unrecoverable. Also...anyone that suffers a groundloop is really viewed as a pariah in the aviation community. Our very own T-cart has around 19,000 hours in taildraggers and was checked out personally by Orville Wright - and he wouldn't be in the same room as someone that has ever groundlooped.

You are better served to never try taildraggers - they will certainly ruin you, but not in the way you think. They will basically render almost anything else you fly immediately inadequate - making the majority of your flying simply a means to the end of being able to pay for more flying in a taildragger.
 
Thanks guys.

I will pursue the endorsement--my gut was telling me to do it, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something obviously stupid.

Cordially,

b.
 
I'm sure your old boss was just trying to make a joke. However, his statement of "when" is very accurate. Any conventional gear pilot who hasn't lost directional control at least once just hasn't been flying long enough.
 
PeterPilot said:
I'm sure your old boss was just trying to make a joke. However, his statement of "when" is very accurate. Any conventional gear pilot who hasn't lost directional control at least once just hasn't been flying long enough.
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And anyone who hasn't gotten killed in an airplane at least once just hasn't been flying long enough. I've got a little over 1000 tailwheel hours. How much longer do I have to wait for my first groundloop to arrive? :confused: Honestly, that sort of statement is just as asinine as saying there are those who have forgotten the gear and those that will. It's bull. Yes I agree anyone is capable of having a bad day. But to say that we'll all ground loop eventually is as stupid as saying we'll all have a fatal accident eventually.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
And anyone who hasn't gotten killed in an airplane at least once just hasn't been flying long enough. I've got a little over 1000 tailwheel hours. How much longer do I have to wait for my first groundloop to arrive? :confused: Honestly, that sort of statement is just as asinine as saying there are those who have forgotten the gear and those that will. It's bull. Yes I agree anyone is capable of having a bad day. But to say that we'll all ground loop eventually is as stupid as saying we'll all have a fatal accident eventually.
Click to expand...

Yep, Good post.
 
With all due respect to your ex boss, as far as hurting your airline chances, I disagree completely. Maybe you didn't hear him correctly. I can't believe any pilot, except one who knows absolutely nothing of CG, would ever say that. However, what you said he said about ground looping is right on. Same goes for wheels up landings. Either you have or you will accomplish one. Just make sure that it will be on your next flight.
 
A tailwheel endorsement would actually *increase* a person's chances of getting hired by me. Not because I think it makes you a better pilot (although it does) or because tailwheel aircraft are usually really fun (although they are), but because I'd have something to talk about with the applicant. I'd rather swap stories with them about flying classic and unique aircraft than get bored out of my mind asking them about their most exciting experience in a C-150.

As for the "not if but when" idea of ground looping, it's nonsense.

That being said, if I found out a person ground looped, I wouldn't hold it against them in the same way I might if I found out they ran out of fuel, landed gear up, or some similar incident. Ground loops are not inevitable, but it's true that even very good, very experienced tailwheel pilots have been known to lose one on occasion. It's not the end of the world.
 
WacoFan said:
I am a huge proponent of never flying taildraggers. It will ruin you. They are best left to dastardly villian types with no regard for their own, or anyone elses, safety. Groundloops can happen spontaneously, with no input from the pilot, and are usually unrecoverable. Also...anyone that suffers a groundloop is really viewed as a pariah in the aviation community. Our very own T-cart has around 19,000 hours in taildraggers and was checked out personally by Orville Wright - and he wouldn't be in the same room as someone that has ever groundlooped.

You are better served to never try taildraggers - they will certainly ruin you, but not in the way you think. They will basically render almost anything else you fly immediately inadequate - making the majority of your flying simply a means to the end of being able to pay for more flying in a taildragger.
Click to expand...

I had a hunch about that.

My dream is to fly a DC-3 (and a mustang and a harvard and grovesner's house and a husky.....)

Dadgummit, the independent, ornery, "makes no sense, but I like it" part of me has gotten me this far.

Tail dragger endorsement is next.


:bandit:


Anybody got some money they want to give me so I can go get it?


b
 
CDNPilotDave said:
However, what you said he said about ground looping is right on. Same goes for wheels up landings. Either you have or you will accomplish one.
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Seriously?

Seriously???

:banghead:

Where do these ideas come from? Sorry to pick on you, CDNPilotDave, but numerous other posters have explained why this logic is completely false. I don't understand why these myths persist.
 
jrh said:
Seriously?

Seriously???

:banghead:

Where do these ideas come from? Sorry to pick on you, CDNPilotDave, but numerous other posters have explained why this logic is completely false. I don't understand why these myths persist.
Click to expand...

and then he adds.....


"Just make sure that it will be on your next flight. "

What I take from it is an admonition to never let it happen while being constantly cognizant that it can happen.

He is saying, don't get complacent.

just saying.

b.
 
beasly said:
"Just make sure that it will be on your next flight. "

What I take from it is an admonition to never let it happen while being constantly cognizant that it can happen.

He is saying, don't get complacent.
Click to expand...

I agree with not allowing complacency, but the logic that an error will eventually happen is still wrong.

Every flight a pilot takes is independent of all other flights. It's like rolling dice. Each roll is independent of all others. Just because you haven't rolled a particular number in the last 20 attempts does not mean the number is bound to come up soon. The dice don't know what the last 20 rolls were. It's equal chances every time.

Same with flying. Just because you've flown 20 years without crashing does not mean you're "due" for a crash. It doesn't work that way. Get good training, be careful, exercise sound judgment, and a person can fly their entire lifetime with a spotless record.
 
A while back I posted a video of an inertia started to give the young 'ens an idea of how real airplanes were started. The video in question was a friends airplane - a 1929 Waco ASO. Anyway, he has flown it most of the summer, and when attending the Waco fly-in he made a beautiful arrival...and promptly groundlooped. Didn't hurt the airplane at all (didn't drag a wingtip or anything) - he just did it in front of all his friends. He has about 3,000 hrs of tailwheel time and is an instructor. Everyone was giving him a ration of poop about groundlooping as soon as the engine stopped after he taxied in - he gets out of the airplane and bows deeply. Said it wasn't a groundloop but it was a pirouette.

Contributing factors are the airplane having a rudder bar and really iffy mechanical brakes. Pedals and hydraulic brakes are going in the airplane when it goes down for the winter.
 
jrh said:
I agree with not allowing complacency, but the logic that an error will eventually happen is still wrong.

Every flight a pilot takes is independent of all other flights. It's like rolling dice. Each roll is independent of all others. Just because you haven't rolled a particular number in the last 20 attempts does not mean the number is bound to come up soon. The dice don't know what the last 20 rolls were. It's equal chances every time.

Same with flying. Just because you've flown 20 years without crashing does not mean you're "due" for a crash. It doesn't work that way. Get good training, be careful, exercise sound judgment, and a person can fly their entire lifetime with a spotless record.
Click to expand...

Agreed.


b.
 
Is this perfect timing for a thread; two ground loops today at the local aerodrome.

I guess they didn't heed the warnings of this thread.


Whoever said it your right, we are a special breed.
 
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