T-birds/Blue Angels and separation

John2375

John2375

New Member
Just sitting around Florida waiting for the hurricane to hit... surfing the net and had a couple questions out of curiosity.
I've seen the T-birds and the Blues probably about 5-6 times each, +/-
I think they both put on superb shows, but I keep questioning the claim by the T-birds that they fly as close as 18" apart...in all the photos I see of their formation flying, it seems like they're close, like maybe 36" but not much closer...obviously they were too close in Chicago last month when a couple bumped, but is that 18" a little exaggerated?
In the photos of the Blues, *they* seem real close, much closer - do they actually fly closer together or is it some sort of illusion brought on by being in larger aircraft??
I always liked the T-birds trail-to-diamond loop maneuver, but always liked the twist on the cross-over break the Blues put in - rolling 270 deg. each first then appearing to go into eachother..
Also, is it me or have the T-birds become a little sloppy in the last few years? I remember they got lost around D.C. in IFR conditions...somebody ejected last year in Idaho, they touch wingtips a few weeks ago...of course the Blues lost a pilot (or 2) a few years back in an accident..
ok time to move some stuff out of the coming-wind....
 
I cant remember which airshow they were practicing for, but one of the 16s wingtip pylons (or they retrofitted the wing-tip with) broke off. But I agree with the sloppy issue. The last few times I've seen them they just havent put on a show like they used to, and some formations waivered more then usual. (but yes, Im still jealous of them :) )
 
?

It was mid-Aug. in Chicago - during the show #4's wingtip brushed against #3's (right wing in the t-birds) horizontal stabilizer - the missile-mount or whatever it's called fell into Lake Michigan and they landed alright - will try to find the link later- gotta eat dinner b4 the power goes out :-)
 
The Blues fly a much tighter formation; I've seen footage where Lead's wingtip is not more than 3 feet above his wingman's head. They also generally fly a more "exciting" show than the T-Birds. Nonetheless, I prefer watching the T-Birds because I think the Viper is a much better looking airplane.
 
Loops to music is loops to music.........a total waste of good combat aircraft, aircraft that should be doing their primary jobs.
 
Why are you so against the demo teams? You've said that before - why, though? THeir main purpose is to recruit and inspire, and I"m sure they do lots of recruiting. Inspiration? Definitely - for the 80-year old grandma who wishes she could go back to her youth in the present day-and-age and od that, and for the 15-year old who's inspired enough to serve his country because of them.
One thing they are *not* is loops to music - go see them away from airshow center, w/o the music and maybe their performance will mean more. I saw them in Rhode Island about 8 years ago, but was late and couldn't get into the show, so parked alongside a road and walked about 3 miles to get a better angle, and saw the show from a great perspective.
These representatives are not waste in anyway shape or form.
 
Wow. You don't know anything about Mike, do you?

Don't listen to him, though. He's just jealous because they turned down his application to be a poster boy. ;)
 
Well I don't know Mike, but I just get sick of his bashing of the T-birds and Blues...I can tolerate his bashing of PFT programs but to badmouth the elite of our countries' fighter pilots is not necessary...
:-)

hey maybe the USN and USAF should have a PFT program to fly w/these guys?!? Pay $1million and be fully-trained to fly with the elite of the armed services?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?? (it's a joke ;-)
 
Easy, Mikey.

See that's just it. What they promote as the "elite" aren't necessarily so when seen from within the fighter pilot community. I'm not knocking them at all. I can't do it (yet). But being the best isn't really what qualifies them to do it. Being a married white male with 2 kids and career military does. So while you get the propaganda view that they want you to get, you don't see what is actually going on behind the scenes, and you don't see that there are a thousand men and women flying similar planes in combat scenarios who are just as good if not better but don't get the praise. In fact, I'd be willing to bet they get "Hey, how come you aren't a Thunderbird? Not good enough?" a lot!

Mike and Chevy (if you're still reading this), more power to you!
 
I totally understand they're used for image purposes! You won't see a divorced-father of 2 (both w/different moms) who's on the dead-beat dad list!!
I know they're just a group of many fighter pilots - maybe there's a reason none from either fleet ever have been space shuttle pilots - but they're not a bunch of jerk-offs who only know how to make their little airplanes go in neat loops timed to music.
If MikeD ever revealed his real name I guarantee you the Air Force would have some severe words for him about what he says on a public discussion forum about their pride and joy, the Thunderbirds.
 
John2375 said:
If MikeD ever revealed his real name I guarantee you the Air Force would have some severe words for him about what he says on a public discussion forum about their pride and joy, the Thunderbirds.
Click to expand...
You just earned an SA: :sitaware:

I'll wait to see if you figure out why....
 
John2375 said:
I totally understand they're used for image purposes! You won't see a divorced-father of 2 (both w/different moms) who's on the dead-beat dad list!!
I know they're just a group of many fighter pilots - maybe there's a reason none from either fleet ever have been space shuttle pilots - but they're not a bunch of jerk-offs who only know how to make their little airplanes go in neat loops timed to music.
If MikeD ever revealed his real name I guarantee you the Air Force would have some severe words for him about what he says on a public discussion forum about their pride and joy, the Thunderbirds.
Click to expand...

he is entitled to his opinions...you want some even severe bashing on t-birds..go over to baseops.net and check it out..there you will find MANY AF pilots bashing them
 
slowandlow said:
Steve,
Does this count as Kingairism?
Click to expand...
:)
I suppose it could!





Really that post probably came out more obscure than I intended. What I was referring to was John's quote "If MikeD ever revealed his real name..." when you consider this little Perspective Article. I thought the irony was a little humorous.

Humor + obscure = Kingairism

Also the thought that "...I guarantee you the Air Force would have some severe words for him about what he says on a public discussion forum about their pride and joy, the Thunderbirds." sounded kind of funny to me. If someone knows that MikeD has posted extensively about his A-10 flying (including at least a couple of combat tours to the Middle East), and posted his current F-117 assignment, including when he made his trips to and from Korea on this latest deployment, it shouldn't be too hard for the Air Force to track down who he was if they were concerned about a little T'Bird bad mouthing.

Actually "my bad" for assuming that people knew MikeD's background and would catch my S.A. reference. :D
 
John2375 said:
If MikeD ever revealed his real name I guarantee you the Air Force would have some severe words for him about what he says on a public discussion forum about their pride and joy, the Thunderbirds.
Click to expand...

#1, MikeD's "real" name isn't much of a secret on here, nor does he post his thoughts here as anything but a private citizen--which he is free to do.

#2, what do you know about the Air Force? My guess is, "not much".

The fact of the matter is that most fighter pilots share MikeD's opinion of the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels. By and large, the pilots who fly for the two teams certainly aren't the "elite" of the fighter pilot corps by any stretch. "Elite" in fighter pilot terms comes not from your formation flying ability or your skills in performing "non-tactical loops" (to music or otherwise), but your ability to put bombs on target, on time, your deftness at air combat maneuvering, your ability to get yourself and your flight home in one piece, and your prowess at a silly little game called Crud.

The people who end up flying with the T-birds and Blues are not the best at what they do, they're simply the best of those who bothered to apply for the job. And given the lack of regard most fighter pilots have for the demo teams, it's not like the real cream of the crop are putting in for that duty.

Where I do give the T-birds and Blues credit is for sacrificing two or three years of their lives to live in a fishbowl and spend a god-awful amount of time on the road--talk about "Service Before Self"! The vast majority of them want the job for all the right reasons--to represent the U.S. military well, and inspire another generation to serve.

Here's a little pop quiz for everyone: what's the most difficult maneuver performed by both the Blues and the T-birds in their routines? I'll bet it's not what you think it is!
 
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