Except if you're pretending to know how to fly a Premier. Then it only comes very close to ending 100% of the drama, but the drama abides.
T-6 down at OSH
- Thread starter ahw01
- Start date
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I wonder how much of it is just that everyone has a camera in their pocket these days.
WacoFan
Bigly
Oshkosh has better years and some worse accident-wise. I've never attended but I've been to more AAA Blakesburg flyins, National Waco Club flyins, and local/regional flyins than I can count. I've never witnessed a mid-air at any of them. Blakesburg has had one fatal since moving to Antique Airfield in 1970 (A Johnson Rocket lost power/impossible turn/spin in). There are sometimes ground loops, mechanical issues, etc - but no major accidents so far, save the fatal in the early 70's. Same kind of thing at Waco Club - some ground loops sometimes, but no mid-airs. The Biplane flyin in Bartlesville had a midair in which a Waco F-2 flew thru a KR-31 in a crash that killed 4.
The only midair I've witnessed personally was at a controlled field (KDWH) in the pattern. So, there's that.
Bottom line - more people went to OSH this year, after a couple years of COVID and many first timers were in the mix. But given the amount of activity in a condensed space I'm surprised there aren't more incidents.
The only midair I've witnessed personally was at a controlled field (KDWH) in the pattern. So, there's that.
Bottom line - more people went to OSH this year, after a couple years of COVID and many first timers were in the mix. But given the amount of activity in a condensed space I'm surprised there aren't more incidents.
This! So much this! Not just now or just at OSH, but always and almost everywhere.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
I have a separate life insurance policy via SJI for my rare GA activities. As I understand it, me getting killed or maimed in a GA smash is excluded from the Company’s policy.
Through whom? Life insurance for GA has got to come from a rare source.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I don’t know about GA GA, but to keep my life insurance as a medevac driver affordable I had to go through Minnesota Life as chosen by PIC Life.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Dude, do you even GA? GA piston traffic is a fraction of what it once was. AVGAS sales are about 40% of what they were in 1983. Aircraft and pilots participating in GA have been attriting faster than replacement numbers for at least 30 years. GA aircraft produced, other than what trickles out of people's garages, isn't even a rounding error compared to the 1970's.
I've flown, quite literally, from one end of this country to the other in the last 10 years in my airplane. If it wasn't for training traffic, most places would have tumbleweeds blowing down the runways. We landed at one Class C airport, and ours was the only one we saw operating, coming or going. And it was VFR. In the middle of the day. I can count the number of people I've seen pre-flighting their airplanes at some cross-country stop on one hand. Less than 5 over 10 years, and that includes the nice guys from Piper on a demo tour with their M600.
Life insurance for those who fly GA is easy to come by. Heck, AOPA spams my mailbox with real actual mail about it at least 2 times a month. It is literally a checkbox on my term policy.
KDVT here in north Phoenix is one of the busiest GA airfields around, but it’s all mostly from the one Chinese flight training school here. There are a large number of small GA planes in the field; both in the hangars and in the covered and open tiedowns, but they mostly just sit there, rotting away. Many of them don’t fly at all, ever. With the cost of a small hangar rental here or even a covered tiedown; that’s a lot of cost for owning an airplane that never flies.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
On the flip side, most flight schools/clubs I know of have a waiting list to get paired with a CFI.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I don't agree with that at all, at least if you live in a metropolitan. I know a lot of pilots, only 2 guys I knew personally have died in crashes out of hundreds of friends and acquaintances. Of the people I know who ride here in the Grand Theft Auto server known as the San Francisco Bay Area, I can think of 6 who died and EVERY last one who has been riding 2+ years regularly has had a near-death experience\serious injury because they were hit by a car that wasn't paying attention. 3 people I know are at least partially paralyzed after surviving accidents ON THE BAY BRIDGE. One location. My dad was actually a rider and put his bike in storage after the 3rd time he was knocked off his bike and woke up to strangers standing over him. A much smaller sample size of riders vs pilots in my life, yet I've actually lost more friends and acquaintances in motorcycle accidents than car accidents, plane crashes, diseases, and suicides combined. Come to think of it, 3 pilots I knew died in motorcycle crashes, so I've actually lost more pilots that I've known to riding than flying. Most GA pilots I know haven't even had an engine failure, let alone a crash. I'd imagine LA, SF, Miami, Seattle, Dallas, New York, etc are all just as dangerous given the volume of traffic which means a much higher chance of someone not paying attention and whacking you. Only 2 motorcycle accidents I know of involving someone I'd met were them being stupid, the rest were basically manslaughter.
Hell, the Bay Area is one of the most congested airspace areas in the country outside of only a few others like NYC, LA, Dallas, Miami, PHX, etc with a lot of busy GA fields right next to SFO/SJC/OAK and packed in tight with terrain. Yet, in my entire lifetime (33 years) there have been something like 20 fatals last I checked in this entire area, including Asiana and commercial accidents. Given how many GA ops occur daily in the area stretching from HAF to APC to LVK to SJC, there is no way that even scratches the surface of motorcycle and traffic fatalities lol.
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
I'm glad to have avoided the show this year, tbh, but my plan to be there also got clobbered by the northeast getting sodomized by the FAA and the weather on go-home day.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
The thing about Oshkosh is that it is the busiest event of the year for general aviation and for some reason recreational pilots that get their flight reviews at Waffle House decide that this week is the right time to go test out their skills in front of 500,000, 600,000 people. It really isn't that hard, but requires all around good airmanship (radio work, hold altitude, follow procedures, crosswind control....).
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I think that attending aircraft should be limited to experimentals and aircraft of a unique nature.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
John King came up with that a while back. While I'm not an actuary to pick apart the data, I think the comparison is fair. I use this analogy when briefing passengers who have serious questions about the overall safety of flying in my plane.
The common refrain that flying is safer than driving does NOT apply to anything outside of 121 airlines. It varies by type of operation, but the GA accident rate is much higher and not comparable to normal driving at all. Most of us understand that flying a Cessna simply doesn't have the same level of safety of a crewed airliner, but civilians have a hard time gauging that risk.
Having said all that I enjoy flying my 50 year old airplane. Even up to and including aerobatics, instructing, local fly ins, and even OSH. I have a good grasp on the risk factors that I can and cannot control and I'm generally comfortable with that. Also being a pilot is too much of who I am as a person to give up.
OTOH, as a single parent I won't ride motorcycles anymore (even though I'd really enjoy it). 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents are "car hit bike" and outside my control. Those risks are outside my control and I just can't take those chances.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
The attraction is that there is a complete spectrum of the aviation world in one place for 5 days. From 121 airlines, military, warbirds, light GA, homebuilts, antiques, seaplanes, ultralights, to random stuff I never knew existed. Whatever you're looking for, you'll probably be able to find it.
Where else are you going to find a 1/3 scale B-17 that is airworthy?
The night airshow is pretty cool too.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I hate to give my ex credit for teaching me a few things, but she is an actuary.
When it comes to insuring GA pilots, a complicating factor is lawsuits.
A person could have a life insurance policy for $100k. Sounds simple, pilot dies, $100k payout. Nope, the insurance company can be caught up in a legal mess when folks start suing the estate. It’s become common to name estates as beneficiaries. When folks sue, they often sue everybody, including the insurance company.
When folks die in motorcycle accidents, there are fewer folks going after the life insurance policy.
When it comes to insuring GA pilots, a complicating factor is lawsuits.
A person could have a life insurance policy for $100k. Sounds simple, pilot dies, $100k payout. Nope, the insurance company can be caught up in a legal mess when folks start suing the estate. It’s become common to name estates as beneficiaries. When folks sue, they often sue everybody, including the insurance company.
When folks die in motorcycle accidents, there are fewer folks going after the life insurance policy.
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trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Not too worried about Oshkosh, I've flown into Watsonville and Deer Valley.
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